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IMO saving money relative to a Tesla Model 3 at the expense of not purchasing the best drivetrain and battery technology available at time of purchase is never
by 71a54xd 4y ago
IMO saving money relative to a Tesla Model 3 at the expense of not purchasing the best drivetrain and battery technology available at time of purchase is never worth it. I'd easily increase my monthly payment by $100 to reach to the $35k range of a base Tesla Model 3.
Drive train, battery and software are the core tenants of what defines the value of an electric car - I think we're going to see the resale value of electric cars perform significantly worse than even a 20yr old Toyota Camry with 100k miles on it. The biggest risk with EV's especially from companies without a significant history of producing them is support completely timing out with vehicles less than 5yrs old. I dislike Louis Rossman but he's covered some GM Ev's that already are basically only supported by third party suppliers without any software support, it's not a rosy looking glimpse at the future [0].
I'm a person who would likely buy the US equivalent of the Honda e:Hev, a hybrid with a larger battery capable of 50+ mpg and I'm not necessarily a fan of Tesla - but if I'm going to drop five figures on a car it's going to be the best tech not something VW Group cooked up that's candidly years behind what Tesla is currently working with.
If you disagree with me, I suggest watching Sandy Munro's content on reverse engineering the quality of Tesla batteries, drivetrain and production methods. He doesn't cut elon slack and you should see how he tore apart the quality of the Mustang EV. [1]
0 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8vHkUhV6Vc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8vHkUhV6Vc
1 - https://www.youtube.com/c/MunroLive https://www.youtube.com/c/MunroLive
- selectodude 4y agoVolkswagen actually makes replacement parts and has a good repair network, which is probably going to be more helpful over the long term than an extra 15 horsepower from a swankier electric motor.
- shiftpgdn 4y agoNonsense. Go on the audi forums and look at all the a3 e-tron owners who have nearly dead batteries who can't get them replaced under warranty without threat of legal action.
- 71a54xd 4y agoI'm not purchasing the Tesla for more horsepower, I just want the best drivetrain tech with the most time on the road. Tesla delivers that.
- shiftpgdn 4y agoI own both a VW/Audi EV (e-tron) and a Tesla. The dealer support for the Audi is extremely pitiful, the software in the car in the app is buggy and unreliable, and that is to say nothing of how bad the associated app is. The annual cost for the advanced features is absurd. The long range charging network is a disaster. I could go on. I am by no means a Tesla fanboy, and Tesla has its own faults, specifically around build quality on the Model 3 (though the S/X are quite nice.) But it's a better EV in every way.
- 71a54xd 4y agoYes! Exactly this! I also know an owner of an E-tron SUV who had abysmal experiences with the dealer and well, the drivetrain / engineering of the e-tron itself. I don't really like Elon, and I think Tesla interior quality is sub-par even to my VW but if I had to buy an EV it would be a Tesla. Full stop. I don't understand who's downvoting this? I'm objectively NOT a fan of Tesla, admit they have some faults but because I'm buying based on hard tech that's clearly better (some would argue with better environmental outcomes) they're not okay with my opinion?
- ulfw 4y agoBecause there's now a hundred alternatives. It's not just an 'etron'. From Kia EV6 to Hyuandai ioniq 5 and 6 to BMW iX, BMW i4, i7, Mercedes EQA, EQB, EQC, EQE, EQS to Genesis GV60 to Kona, Nissan Leaf, Audi eTron GT, Porsche Taycan, VW ID3, ID Buzz, ID4, ID5, soon ID7, Audi Q4/Q4 Sportback eTron, Ford Mustang, Ford F150 Lightning, Rivian R1T, R1S, Lucid Air, BYD Atto 3, BYD Dolphin, BYD Seal, Xpeng P7, G9, NIO ET7, ES8, EP9, Ora Funky Cat, Mini EV (soon the better new EV), smart #1, Hummer EV, Polestar 2, soon 3, Volvo C40 recharge, XC40, MG ZS, MG4, Skoda Enyaq, Cupra, etc etc etc I can't remember more right now but I am sure there's at least twice as many. It's not just "oh etron is bad, now there is only Tesla. Full stop"
- shiftpgdn 4y agoFor US buyers half of your list are VW/Audi/Porsche products which have the same underlying software issues. I will admit the Taycan is the best driving car, EV or otherwise I have ever driven. The Ford Products are promising but have been majorly hamstrung by dealers asking for astronimal markups. I had a Polestar as a rental car and it was great, and the BMW and Mercedes EVs are wonderful too. BUT they're all stuck with a very unreliable charging network and dealers are awful middlemen for now.
- avgDev 4y agoI suggest you go drive some EVs. Tesla is an awful car, I rented one before I bought it...and decided against it. I have driven Model Y, VW ID4, and Kia EV6. Tesla Model Y cons: - auto wipers do not work properly, other manufacturers are using sensors, Tesla is using cameras - phantom braking still an issue - ride quality much worse than competitors, I drove race cars that had better suspension, I was in disbelief how poor the suspension was - build quality still behind legacy car manufacturers - removal of ultra sonic sensors, because Tesla Vision better, coming soon......it has been 5 months now? - FSD is a $15k scam and should not be allowed on public streets - yoke, Tesla got it wrong while Toyota has got the yoke right (https://jalopnik.com/how-lexus-got-the-yoke-right-unlike-tesla-1848854735 https://jalopnik.com/how-lexus-got-the-yoke-right-unlike-tes...) -lack of aftermarket parts and support -lack of 3rd party mechanics -poor service -Tesla center would not return emails and calls about extended test drive, I can only imagine how service is like - No blind detection sensors? What is this 2001? Pros: - Charging network, with a caveat as it is actually quite expensive, if you can't charge at home you might not even save any money vs something like a hybrid Sandy Munro is a tesla shill. He literally covers Tesla share holder meetings and talks about all "hidden" messages.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoAlso > Tesla Model Y cons: Does not support Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.
- 71a54xd 4y agoI test drove a model 3 last week - markedly better than the one I test drove last year. Yeah, the yoke sucks... I'll opt for the wheel. I tried out an audi EV yesterday - was not impressed, felt like I was driving on balloons. Tesla flaming here is wild - I've already said I'm not really a fan I just want a car with solid drivetrain.
- avgDev 4y agoHow anything I have said is WILD? I have literally stated true facts. I was excited for the model Y based on the internet hype, just to be insanely disappointed.
- devmor 4y agoI've test driven a Model 3 and Model Y, they are the cheapest-feeling cars I've ever been in. Both driving them and being inside them as a passenger, the quality and finish are that I'd expect from an extreme budget car, like an early-2000's Kia. I would much sooner trust any established brand over Tesla, even other American makers with their own reliability and quality issues. I don't have any experience owning them, so I can't speak to the numerous reported issues with repairs and reliability, other than to say I've seen others complain about them ad-nauseum. After seeing stories about people fighting for months and eventually having to beg Elon Musk for help over Twitter, I would not want to be stuck with one. Even if the ID.2ALL has issues, I do have far more confidence that a company like VW would do repairs and maintenance in a timely manner.
- rootusrootus 4y agoAs someone who owns a Model 3 and a Bolt, I have to say that the reason I got the Model 3 was the supercharger network. And Tesla just eliminated that advantage themselves. Next EV won't be a Tesla. Too many misfeatures or missing features.