4 ms·

I'd say it's possible that there have truly not been any original ideas, and the earliest human ideas might've been just remixing observed natural phenomena. Wh

I'd say it's possible that there have truly not been any original ideas, and the earliest human ideas might've been just remixing observed natural phenomena. What would muddy the waters there is that humans are complex organisms that in turn exhibit naturally complex behaviors both on an individual and a societal level. And there's even emotions that we feel due to our biology. But if you define all these as phenomena we observed about ourselves, I think my initial assertion still makes sense.

dinkumthinkum 4y ago
No true original ideas and there was just remixing natural phenomena? Really? So writing was just remixing all the writing that people saw volcanoes and rainstorms do?
- underyx 4y ago
  I would advise reading allllllll the way till the second sentence in my comment.
- rdlw 4y ago
  Writing was a remix of pictorial representation, which was a remix of the way things like ox heads, flowing water, and birds look.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    >> No true original ideas and there was just remixing natural phenomena? Really? So writing was just remixing all the writing that people saw volcanoes and rainstorms do? > Writing was a remix of pictorial representation, which was a remix of the way things like ox heads, flowing water, and birds look. That's the kind of absurd reasoning when you take some proposition and try to defend it to the death even though its wrong.
    - rdlw 4y ago
      I'm not the one preserving the word 'remix' in this context, I just wanted to put it in the terms that GP was using. It certainly sounds more absurd when you use that word. But the point is that human creations are always based on something else, so pointing out that AI is basing its output on a database of previous work does not necessarily mean that it is not creating new art, or being creative, or however else you want to put it. It's like the ridiculous lawsuits that claim a song is stolen because it uses the same chord progression as an older song, where there are almost always centuries-old examples of that same progression from Beethoven et al. Your point seems to be that the reasoning is absurd because it's defending an incorrect premise, and the premise is obviously wrong because the reasoning is absurd, so I'm not you'll want to know what the people on the other side of this discussion think.
goatlover 4y ago
The earliest humans didn't know everything we know today. How could they had any ideas about digital simulations, branching timelines or nuclear war? There's a million things today that didn't exist back then, and many things that came to exist culturally over time, or were discovered. Do you think they were sitting around the fire talking about how the molecular motion registers as a conscious heat sensation in animals or what the proper interpretation of QM is?
- sage92 4y ago
  I don't have a definite conclusion on anything, but I remember having this discussion with a friend a long time ago, and it made me think... What he was trying to convince me was that all of those things you mention can be seen as subclasses of other natural things: Digital simulations are self-explanatory - All things simulated must have an existing thing they are simulating. Digital is one type of representation of an already existing thing. It can be seen as a subclass of concept/drawing/painting/. Branching timelines are more abstract, but it's ultimately based on the idea of a tree. Dilemmas over branching decisions have existed as long as we have been able to think. We branch timelines in our imaginations while playing chess or doing any strategic endeavor where decisions and responses to those decisions matter. FFT: Decision tree, binary tree, random forests, etc. These don't quite cover the complexity of QM, but it's hard to ignore that there is overlap. A nuke is a type of bomb, which is a type of rapid expansion, which is just an expansion of something (volcano, lightning, comets, etc...) My friend's point was that of course a caveman won't be thinking about quantum mechanics, but they were thinking about the more basic things that ultimately led to their descendants thinking about QM. Just food for thought.

dinkumthinkum 4y ago

No true original ideas and there was just remixing natural phenomena? Really? So writing was just remixing all the writing that people saw volcanoes and rainstorms do?

underyx 4y ago
I would advise reading allllllll the way till the second sentence in my comment.
rdlw 4y ago
Writing was a remix of pictorial representation, which was a remix of the way things like ox heads, flowing water, and birds look.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> No true original ideas and there was just remixing natural phenomena? Really? So writing was just remixing all the writing that people saw volcanoes and rainstorms do? > Writing was a remix of pictorial representation, which was a remix of the way things like ox heads, flowing water, and birds look. That's the kind of absurd reasoning when you take some proposition and try to defend it to the death even though its wrong.
  - rdlw 4y ago
    I'm not the one preserving the word 'remix' in this context, I just wanted to put it in the terms that GP was using. It certainly sounds more absurd when you use that word. But the point is that human creations are always based on something else, so pointing out that AI is basing its output on a database of previous work does not necessarily mean that it is not creating new art, or being creative, or however else you want to put it. It's like the ridiculous lawsuits that claim a song is stolen because it uses the same chord progression as an older song, where there are almost always centuries-old examples of that same progression from Beethoven et al. Your point seems to be that the reasoning is absurd because it's defending an incorrect premise, and the premise is obviously wrong because the reasoning is absurd, so I'm not you'll want to know what the people on the other side of this discussion think.

goatlover 4y ago

The earliest humans didn't know everything we know today. How could they had any ideas about digital simulations, branching timelines or nuclear war? There's a million things today that didn't exist back then, and many things that came to exist culturally over time, or were discovered. Do you think they were sitting around the fire talking about how the molecular motion registers as a conscious heat sensation in animals or what the proper interpretation of QM is?

sage92 4y ago
I don't have a definite conclusion on anything, but I remember having this discussion with a friend a long time ago, and it made me think... What he was trying to convince me was that all of those things you mention can be seen as subclasses of other natural things: Digital simulations are self-explanatory - All things simulated must have an existing thing they are simulating. Digital is one type of representation of an already existing thing. It can be seen as a subclass of concept/drawing/painting/. Branching timelines are more abstract, but it's ultimately based on the idea of a tree. Dilemmas over branching decisions have existed as long as we have been able to think. We branch timelines in our imaginations while playing chess or doing any strategic endeavor where decisions and responses to those decisions matter. FFT: Decision tree, binary tree, random forests, etc. These don't quite cover the complexity of QM, but it's hard to ignore that there is overlap. A nuke is a type of bomb, which is a type of rapid expansion, which is just an expansion of something (volcano, lightning, comets, etc...) My friend's point was that of course a caveman won't be thinking about quantum mechanics, but they were thinking about the more basic things that ultimately led to their descendants thinking about QM. Just food for thought.