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Sounds unfortunate. Hopefully just an error or the service can replace it by a snapshot. No local backup on a drive or memory-card? Local backups shall be stor

Sounds unfortunate. Hopefully just an error or the service can replace it by a snapshot. No local backup on a drive or memory-card? Local backups shall be stored in different locations (depends on importance) not reachable by network. The cloud is the server of someone else and not a backup.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
God you'd hope that Amazon is using S3 versioning (they apparently use S3 as the backend storage, because, well, yeah, you would. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/storage/how-amazon-photos-uses-amazon-s3-intelligent-tiering-to-significantly-reduce-storage-costs/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/storage/how-amazon-photos-uses-... )
Nextgrid 4y ago
> Local backups shall be stored in different locations (depends on importance) not reachable by network. The cloud is the server of someone else and not a backup. That's common knowledge among tech people but blaming the victim is not the solution here. These services are marketed as safe, reliable, and not needing backups (in fact sometimes they make it difficult to take backups, even more so for a non-technical user). Maybe the regulation should be changed that any consumer-grade storage service either needs to provide adequate SLAs & compensation, or have to advertise in bold and prominent font (at least as prominent as their selling points) "WE MAY EAT YOUR DATA AT ANY TIME, PLAN ACCORDINGLY".
- luckylion 4y ago
  Nobody is blaming the victim, they're saying that you should have a backup outside of your cloud provider. I don't think people care enough about SLAs to pay a premium, until something happens to their data. But by then it's too late. The bold warning is cute, but have you seen cigarette packaging in Europe lately?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    > The bold warning is cute, but have you seen cigarette packaging in Europe lately? The warning served its purpose quite well though - the majority of people including smokers concede that smoking is harmful. If they are still smoking despite that, it's on them. The same cannot be said of cloud services. Very few people outside of tech think that the cloud can fail (whether technical failure or just randomly ban you for potential unspecified violation of ToS), so the same kinds of warnings would be useful to spread awareness.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      > If they are still smoking despite that, it's on them. That's my point: the warnings don't lead to reasonable decisions. "If you don't pay for it, you are the product" has to be one of the most echoed sentiments of the last few years, and people still demand everything for free, and prefer to pay with their data instead of paying for the content they consume (e.g. on newspapers). If Amazon gave them a choice of "you're data is most most most likely fine" and "your data is most most most most likely fine, and we'll pay you $1000 if it's not but you pay twice the money each month", I doubt they'll see a lot of people switch over. They'll have some, but not many, because ultimately, people don't care enough.
      - Nextgrid 4y ago
        > the warnings don't lead to reasonable decisions. The warnings lead to informed decisions. They may not always be reasonable, but at least the person knows what they're getting themselves into. My intention is not to outlaw "best effort" cloud storage or legally compel the providers to offer an SLA, but merely to make the limitations clear so that customers, including non-technical ones, can make an informed decision.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > I don't think people care enough about SLAs to pay a premium Huh? People specifically pay for cloud to not lose their data. Before that my parents used to copy photos from laptop to laptop, and lose them when a hard disk failed. Now if cloud loses your data, they might ask wtf am I paying for.
- ho_schi 4y ago
  I‘m sorry if you interpret here a blame. I consider repeating common knowledge actually a necessity! To keep tech people informed and aware and also non-tech people. PS: I should better do another backup…
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Local backups shall be stored in different locations (depends on importance) not reachable by network This is basically you signing that we have failed as an industry. No other industry expects it's users to operate with tbe diligence of a bank.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

God you'd hope that Amazon is using S3 versioning (they apparently use S3 as the backend storage, because, well, yeah, you would. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/storage/how-amazon-photos-uses-amazon-s3-intelligent-tiering-to-significantly-reduce-storage-costs/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/storage/how-amazon-photos-uses-... )

Nextgrid 4y ago

> Local backups shall be stored in different locations (depends on importance) not reachable by network. The cloud is the server of someone else and not a backup. That's common knowledge among tech people but blaming the victim is not the solution here. These services are marketed as safe, reliable, and not needing backups (in fact sometimes they make it difficult to take backups, even more so for a non-technical user). Maybe the regulation should be changed that any consumer-grade storage service either needs to provide adequate SLAs & compensation, or have to advertise in bold and prominent font (at least as prominent as their selling points) "WE MAY EAT YOUR DATA AT ANY TIME, PLAN ACCORDINGLY".

luckylion 4y ago
Nobody is blaming the victim, they're saying that you should have a backup outside of your cloud provider. I don't think people care enough about SLAs to pay a premium, until something happens to their data. But by then it's too late. The bold warning is cute, but have you seen cigarette packaging in Europe lately?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > The bold warning is cute, but have you seen cigarette packaging in Europe lately? The warning served its purpose quite well though - the majority of people including smokers concede that smoking is harmful. If they are still smoking despite that, it's on them. The same cannot be said of cloud services. Very few people outside of tech think that the cloud can fail (whether technical failure or just randomly ban you for potential unspecified violation of ToS), so the same kinds of warnings would be useful to spread awareness.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    > If they are still smoking despite that, it's on them. That's my point: the warnings don't lead to reasonable decisions. "If you don't pay for it, you are the product" has to be one of the most echoed sentiments of the last few years, and people still demand everything for free, and prefer to pay with their data instead of paying for the content they consume (e.g. on newspapers). If Amazon gave them a choice of "you're data is most most most likely fine" and "your data is most most most most likely fine, and we'll pay you $1000 if it's not but you pay twice the money each month", I doubt they'll see a lot of people switch over. They'll have some, but not many, because ultimately, people don't care enough.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      > the warnings don't lead to reasonable decisions. The warnings lead to informed decisions. They may not always be reasonable, but at least the person knows what they're getting themselves into. My intention is not to outlaw "best effort" cloud storage or legally compel the providers to offer an SLA, but merely to make the limitations clear so that customers, including non-technical ones, can make an informed decision.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > I don't think people care enough about SLAs to pay a premium Huh? People specifically pay for cloud to not lose their data. Before that my parents used to copy photos from laptop to laptop, and lose them when a hard disk failed. Now if cloud loses your data, they might ask wtf am I paying for.
ho_schi 4y ago
I‘m sorry if you interpret here a blame. I consider repeating common knowledge actually a necessity! To keep tech people informed and aware and also non-tech people. PS: I should better do another backup…

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> Local backups shall be stored in different locations (depends on importance) not reachable by network This is basically you signing that we have failed as an industry. No other industry expects it's users to operate with tbe diligence of a bank.