5 ms·

Less bullshit jobs. Society needs doctors, nurses, plumbers and teachers not tech bros.

piva00 4y ago
Society definitely needs those, but the incentives of the system most societies live under do not align to those needs. We are 100% into a society of wants, not needs, and the rewards are for those who sell stuff for these wants. Our needs went into the "cost center" of society's calculation, not an investment, and so it's been a race to the bottom for those professions. While adtech, crypto and other bullshit gets massive funding because it can turn a profit. The incentives to have a good society don't align with the incentives of financial capitalism.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
I agree with your sentiment but disagree that AI research is in any way the domain of tech bros. I’m starting to see the term “tech bros” appear more and more in HN - before hand I more frequently saw it outside of this site. Some people on HN I have seen really come down on those that use the term. I don’t. Perhaps those of us in the industry ought to recognize that the term exists because of a growing resentment among people outside of the tech industry. Your comment hints too as to why that is.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- meany 4y ago
  It's evidence of resentment, but not of well reasoned discourse against something the tech industry is doing. Characterizations like this anthropomorphize a group into a single entity that is easier to hate and assign intentions, too. It's not constructive to any conversation that moves a discussion forward. A person who is mad at "tech bros" is likely more upset about systemic forces that they want to blame on a target. It's logically equivalent to making sweeping statements blaming immigrants for suppressed wages.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    Comparing affluent ivory-tower digital landlords to vulnerable people being blamed for things outside their control is definitely one of the decisions of all time. It also seems like a lot of exercise just to feel justified in discarding a large group of opinions. People start generalizing about groups like this when they've stopped caring about negative policy consequences which affect those groups. Politicians who blame wage stagnation on immigrants do not expect to have those immigrants who gain citizenship vote for them. Why do you think people might have stopped caring what happens to the group designated "tech bros"?
tpoacher 4y ago
take it from me; "doc bros" are far, far worse.
laserlight 4y ago
AI or technology won't reduce bullshit jobs. To the contrary, they might increase bullshit jobs, because there would be more resources to allocate for those jobs.
- r_klancer 4y ago
  Yes, yes, yes. My wife (who teaches humanities) keeps asking me if AI is going to take all the jobs. I keep saying society has already had to deal with the fact that not that many people are required to build the things and grow the food, and we adapted by inventing all kinds of vaguely bullshit jobs, and jobs to provide services to the people who get their money from bullshit jobs, and all of those jobs spread the wealth around. There will be more and more of those (and, to be clear, many more people who aren't in a position to get one.) Still better to train lots of electricians and refrigerant techs and solar installers and all the other workers that the energy transition will need, of course. Also have yet to Graeber's book ("Bullshit Jobs: A Theory").
harimau777 4y ago
Two problems: Who is going to pay to retrain people for those jobs? Except for perhaps doctors (and even then residency is BS) all of those jobs are treated or paid like crap.
siva7 4y ago
You do realise those tech "bros" are what enables doctors, nurses, plumbers and teachers to have a better work-life?
- themaninthedark 4y ago
  I am not sure I can agree. Doctors and nurses now spend more time entering data than talking to patients. Teachers now spend more time entering grades into online systems and fielding messages from parents. Not sure how tech is helping or hurting plumbers except for the standard GPS tracking that bosses use to follow them around.
tomp 4y ago
With this kind of mindset, we'd still be using lead pipes and letting blood. Doctors and plumbers might make society work, but technology drives society forward.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  Sure. But recruiting scheduling coordinators do not. Those people would better serve society stringing up new HVDC lines, which the current model does not incentivize.
mecklyuii 4y ago
I'm not a 'tech bro'. My job is to optimize workflows which reduce cost, CO2 and make the world better and easier. It's not my fault that society is unable to optimize everything for less work for everyone while everyone can have a good live.

Society definitely needs those, but the incentives of the system most societies live under do not align to those needs. We are 100% into a society of wants, not needs, and the rewards are for those who sell stuff for these wants. Our needs went into the "cost center" of society's calculation, not an investment, and so it's been a race to the bottom for those professions. While adtech, crypto and other bullshit gets massive funding because it can turn a profit. The incentives to have a good society don't align with the incentives of financial capitalism.

JKCalhoun 4y ago

I agree with your sentiment but disagree that AI research is in any way the domain of tech bros. I’m starting to see the term “tech bros” appear more and more in HN - before hand I more frequently saw it outside of this site. Some people on HN I have seen really come down on those that use the term. I don’t. Perhaps those of us in the industry ought to recognize that the term exists because of a growing resentment among people outside of the tech industry. Your comment hints too as to why that is.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
meany 4y ago
It's evidence of resentment, but not of well reasoned discourse against something the tech industry is doing. Characterizations like this anthropomorphize a group into a single entity that is easier to hate and assign intentions, too. It's not constructive to any conversation that moves a discussion forward. A person who is mad at "tech bros" is likely more upset about systemic forces that they want to blame on a target. It's logically equivalent to making sweeping statements blaming immigrants for suppressed wages.
- stonogo 4y ago
  Comparing affluent ivory-tower digital landlords to vulnerable people being blamed for things outside their control is definitely one of the decisions of all time. It also seems like a lot of exercise just to feel justified in discarding a large group of opinions. People start generalizing about groups like this when they've stopped caring about negative policy consequences which affect those groups. Politicians who blame wage stagnation on immigrants do not expect to have those immigrants who gain citizenship vote for them. Why do you think people might have stopped caring what happens to the group designated "tech bros"?

tpoacher 4y ago

take it from me; "doc bros" are far, far worse.

laserlight 4y ago

AI or technology won't reduce bullshit jobs. To the contrary, they might increase bullshit jobs, because there would be more resources to allocate for those jobs.

r_klancer 4y ago
Yes, yes, yes. My wife (who teaches humanities) keeps asking me if AI is going to take all the jobs. I keep saying society has already had to deal with the fact that not that many people are required to build the things and grow the food, and we adapted by inventing all kinds of vaguely bullshit jobs, and jobs to provide services to the people who get their money from bullshit jobs, and all of those jobs spread the wealth around. There will be more and more of those (and, to be clear, many more people who aren't in a position to get one.) Still better to train lots of electricians and refrigerant techs and solar installers and all the other workers that the energy transition will need, of course. Also have yet to Graeber's book ("Bullshit Jobs: A Theory").

harimau777 4y ago

Two problems: Who is going to pay to retrain people for those jobs? Except for perhaps doctors (and even then residency is BS) all of those jobs are treated or paid like crap.

siva7 4y ago

You do realise those tech "bros" are what enables doctors, nurses, plumbers and teachers to have a better work-life?

themaninthedark 4y ago
I am not sure I can agree. Doctors and nurses now spend more time entering data than talking to patients. Teachers now spend more time entering grades into online systems and fielding messages from parents. Not sure how tech is helping or hurting plumbers except for the standard GPS tracking that bosses use to follow them around.

tomp 4y ago

With this kind of mindset, we'd still be using lead pipes and letting blood. Doctors and plumbers might make society work, but technology drives society forward.

throwayyy479087 4y ago
Sure. But recruiting scheduling coordinators do not. Those people would better serve society stringing up new HVDC lines, which the current model does not incentivize.

mecklyuii 4y ago

I'm not a 'tech bro'. My job is to optimize workflows which reduce cost, CO2 and make the world better and easier. It's not my fault that society is unable to optimize everything for less work for everyone while everyone can have a good live.