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This shouldn’t be surprising. We as a society really like plastic stuff and really like pretending our actions as individuals don’t have consequences. It’s lik

This shouldn’t be surprising. We as a society really like plastic stuff and really like pretending our actions as individuals don’t have consequences. It’s like the hotdog meme guy. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/were-all-trying-to-find-the-guy-who-did-this https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/were-all-trying-to-find-the-g...

fredley 4y ago
Individual action alone cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution. All the cheapest food is packaged in single-use plastic. All the cheapest clothes and toys are made of plastic. One simply cannot opt out of this system without making massive, potentially ostrasizing changes to one's life. Many/most cannot afford fancy plastic-free goods. Most plastic pollution in the ocean is directly related to shipping and in particular fishing[0]. Nothing I can do individually can address this, change must come from World leaders and industry bodies working in good faith across international borders. They all know this is happening, they all know measures that could be taken to address it. Much of the framing of climate change and pollution as individual responsibility comes from large industry bodies themselves, who would much rather you feel guilty about it personally rather than wonder if they might be to blame.[1] [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/06/dumped-fishing-gear-is-biggest-plastic-polluter-in-ocean-finds-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/06/dumped-f... [1]: Plastic Recycling is an Actual Scam | Climate Town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g
- paulcole 4y ago
  > Individual action alone cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution Yes, but lack of individual action also cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution. > Most plastic pollution in the ocean is directly related to shipping and in particular fishing[0]. Nothing I can do individually can address this You can stop eating fish and you can limit the amount of junk you buy! But if you like eating fish and you like buying junk and you don’t want to inconvenience yourself, you’ll say that it’s the world leaders and industry bodies who must change. And don’t get me wrong, this is an absolutely fine stance to have. You and I will be dead before the consequences of our choices are felt. But don’t pretend like there’s nothing you can do. It’s just that there’s nothing you actually want to do.
  - mchanson 4y ago
    It's not pretend there is nothing you can do unless you are participating in mass action not individual action. Focusing on personal consumption is an illness of upper middle class Americans that keeps you from focusing your efforts on activity that might lead the actual change.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      Again no. The idea that you as an individual can’t make choices that are better for the world is self-delusion. You choose not to make those choices because it is easier to blame someone else. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this. But at least be honest about it. You can take individual action and put effort into activity that might lead to actual change. But I’m guessing most people opt for the make no change, blame someone else, and put no effort into activity that might lead to actual change option. And again, nothing wrong with this! It’s our planet to fuck up.
      - mchanson 4y ago
        We are talking about plastic in the environment. Your personal choices will make no difference in this problem. There are other problems where personal action on an individual level can make positive change, but this isn't one of them.
        paulcole 4y ago
        > Your personal choices will make no difference in this problem. Of course they do! You are reducing your contribution to future plastic in the environment. We can argue over the extent of the difference this choice makes but to say it makes no difference is absurd.
        yesenadam 4y ago
        OK, well, why say "there’s nothing wrong with this" as you do above— > The idea that you as an individual can’t make choices that are better for the world is self-delusion. You choose not to make those choices because it is easier to blame someone else. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this. —when your whole point is that there's something wrong with it?! And it's mixed with unnecessarily confrontational language—"absurd", "self-delusion".

fredley 4y ago

Individual action alone cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution. All the cheapest food is packaged in single-use plastic. All the cheapest clothes and toys are made of plastic. One simply cannot opt out of this system without making massive, potentially ostrasizing changes to one's life. Many/most cannot afford fancy plastic-free goods. Most plastic pollution in the ocean is directly related to shipping and in particular fishing[0]. Nothing I can do individually can address this, change must come from World leaders and industry bodies working in good faith across international borders. They all know this is happening, they all know measures that could be taken to address it. Much of the framing of climate change and pollution as individual responsibility comes from large industry bodies themselves, who would much rather you feel guilty about it personally rather than wonder if they might be to blame.[1] [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/06/dumped-fishing-gear-is-biggest-plastic-polluter-in-ocean-finds-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/06/dumped-f... [1]: Plastic Recycling is an Actual Scam | Climate Town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g

paulcole 4y ago
> Individual action alone cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution Yes, but lack of individual action also cannot stem climate change and mass plastic pollution. > Most plastic pollution in the ocean is directly related to shipping and in particular fishing[0]. Nothing I can do individually can address this You can stop eating fish and you can limit the amount of junk you buy! But if you like eating fish and you like buying junk and you don’t want to inconvenience yourself, you’ll say that it’s the world leaders and industry bodies who must change. And don’t get me wrong, this is an absolutely fine stance to have. You and I will be dead before the consequences of our choices are felt. But don’t pretend like there’s nothing you can do. It’s just that there’s nothing you actually want to do.
- mchanson 4y ago
  It's not pretend there is nothing you can do unless you are participating in mass action not individual action. Focusing on personal consumption is an illness of upper middle class Americans that keeps you from focusing your efforts on activity that might lead the actual change.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    Again no. The idea that you as an individual can’t make choices that are better for the world is self-delusion. You choose not to make those choices because it is easier to blame someone else. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this. But at least be honest about it. You can take individual action and put effort into activity that might lead to actual change. But I’m guessing most people opt for the make no change, blame someone else, and put no effort into activity that might lead to actual change option. And again, nothing wrong with this! It’s our planet to fuck up.
    - mchanson 4y ago
      We are talking about plastic in the environment. Your personal choices will make no difference in this problem. There are other problems where personal action on an individual level can make positive change, but this isn't one of them.
      - paulcole 4y ago
        > Your personal choices will make no difference in this problem. Of course they do! You are reducing your contribution to future plastic in the environment. We can argue over the extent of the difference this choice makes but to say it makes no difference is absurd.
        yesenadam 4y ago
        OK, well, why say "there’s nothing wrong with this" as you do above— > The idea that you as an individual can’t make choices that are better for the world is self-delusion. You choose not to make those choices because it is easier to blame someone else. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this. —when your whole point is that there's something wrong with it?! And it's mixed with unnecessarily confrontational language—"absurd", "self-delusion".