3 ms·

I know, right? Or because a constant flux of immigrants is a totally sustainable situation.. We somehow need to be able to view immigration and its effects thr

I know, right? Or because a constant flux of immigrants is a totally sustainable situation.. We somehow need to be able to view immigration and its effects through a lens of reasoning, and not passionate politics. If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right.

runnerup 4y ago
Seems to have worked fine for the USA government and its constituents for the past 300 years. As long as you ignore the plight of indigenous populations, most of the big problems have been caused by the incumbent populations, not the immigrants.
- rayiner 4y ago
  The USA is a completely different situation. When Germans and Scandinavian immigrants came, for example, they settled the Midwest and had their own space. Immigration to existing heavily populated places, like Italian immigration to NYC caused huge problems (like the Mafia). Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable.
  - legacynl 4y ago
    Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. > Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable. There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? The Italian mafia was pretty bad! > As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. Also Irish immigrants. It wasn’t just Italians and Irish, but Prohibition may well have succeeded without immigration. > There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. The country’s current problems are deeply rooted in immigration, going back all the way to the dramatic expansion of the federal government under FDR, which was made possible only due to immigrants’ voting patterns. That pattern of newcomers using their numbers to change the politics of the host country is tremendously destabilizing. > Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed. I’m an immigrant so I have every reason to be predisposed to viewing immigration positively. However, my family also left our homeland to come here, so I’m pretty skeptical about cultural change. If I’m being objective, I can’t help but conclude that it creates economic benefits while being detrimental to long-term well being and democracy.
legacynl 4y ago
More people means more people paying VAT, income tax, creating businesses, buying things, etc. > If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right. That's because nobody with your standpoint ever has any evidence to support those claims. Also South Korea (and Japan for example) need to do something about their aging population. Investing in educating migrants is a whole lot better than destroying your economy because you can't pay pensions and don't have enough workers to keep your industry afloat.
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  while on the other hand, you have evidence to support that immigration is beneficial ? the correlation between growth and immigration is because immigrants flock to affluent countries that are on the way up. correlation, not causation.

runnerup 4y ago

Seems to have worked fine for the USA government and its constituents for the past 300 years. As long as you ignore the plight of indigenous populations, most of the big problems have been caused by the incumbent populations, not the immigrants.

rayiner 4y ago
The USA is a completely different situation. When Germans and Scandinavian immigrants came, for example, they settled the Midwest and had their own space. Immigration to existing heavily populated places, like Italian immigration to NYC caused huge problems (like the Mafia). Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable.
- legacynl 4y ago
  Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. > Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable. There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? The Italian mafia was pretty bad! > As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. Also Irish immigrants. It wasn’t just Italians and Irish, but Prohibition may well have succeeded without immigration. > There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. The country’s current problems are deeply rooted in immigration, going back all the way to the dramatic expansion of the federal government under FDR, which was made possible only due to immigrants’ voting patterns. That pattern of newcomers using their numbers to change the politics of the host country is tremendously destabilizing. > Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed. I’m an immigrant so I have every reason to be predisposed to viewing immigration positively. However, my family also left our homeland to come here, so I’m pretty skeptical about cultural change. If I’m being objective, I can’t help but conclude that it creates economic benefits while being detrimental to long-term well being and democracy.

legacynl 4y ago

More people means more people paying VAT, income tax, creating businesses, buying things, etc. > If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right. That's because nobody with your standpoint ever has any evidence to support those claims. Also South Korea (and Japan for example) need to do something about their aging population. Investing in educating migrants is a whole lot better than destroying your economy because you can't pay pensions and don't have enough workers to keep your industry afloat.

4gotunameagain 4y ago
while on the other hand, you have evidence to support that immigration is beneficial ? the correlation between growth and immigration is because immigrants flock to affluent countries that are on the way up. correlation, not causation.