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>I don't agree with all of Obama's ideas, but I think under his presidency I will have the most freedom to be who I am without fear that my country will turn in

>I don't agree with all of Obama's ideas, but I think under his presidency I will have the most freedom to be who I am without fear that my country will turn into the setting of the novel 1984. From a civil liberties perspective, I am not comforted by Obama's capitulations on FISA and the PATRIOT Act, and neither am I comforted by his choice of one of the fiercest enemies of privacy in Congress as his running mate. Biden bragged that he "wrote the PATRIOT Act", and he was the originator of the office of the Drug Czar. You may think Obama is better than McCain, and that is your right, but lets have an honest view of his actions in mind when we make that choice.

mattmaroon 18y ago
You basically just mentioned two areas where both candidates somewhat agree. If you widen your scope at all, you see there's a clear difference. Obama's pro gay civil unions and pro choice. He's against torture (which McCain claims to be against, but then voted to essentially give the administration a pass on). He's for habeas corpus for detainees. On the overall topic of civil liberties, it's not even a contest. McCain's views are much closer to those of the people who once held him prisoner than they are anyone who gives a shit about civil liberties. Oh, and Obama is pro net neutrality, McCain isn't. If you can present one instance of McCain supporting a single civil liberty that Obama does not, I'd love to hear it, because I can present scores of the opposite. Is that an honest enough view?
- alecco 18y ago
  Obama's campaign was caught changing their stance on Net neutrality after Biden was nominated. http://versionista.com/diff/JAS9LMr5qU7q8BSroV8KzQ/ http://versionista.com/diff/JAS9LMr5qU7q8BSroV8KzQ/
  - sharkfish 18y ago
    He removed much of the verbiage but he still supports net neutrality (as evidenced in your link).
    - alecco 18y ago
      I didn't say he stopped supporting Net Neutrality. I only said his campaign was caught changing their stance. Not even Obama himself, as I'm sure he doesn't have time to review edits on his website.
      - Retric 18y ago
        If your read the old copy of his page it was much harder for an average voter to understand. So some staffer "cleaned it up" but there is no evidence he changed his mind on that topic.
        alecco 18y ago
        Just now: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081103-obama-goes-gunning-for-geek-votes.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081103-obama-goes-gun... Perhaps more significantly, there is no reference to network neutrality, perhaps the single tech issue on which the gap between Obama and McCain is most pronounced. At the 2007 Google talk, Obama declared he would "take a backseat to no one in my commitment to network neutrality, because once providers start to privilege some applications or Web sites over others, then the smaller voices get squeezed out and we all lose." They edited out the Network Neutrality part of the videos. Ars Technica says it, not me. Go ahead, mod me down again. Have a nice cozy groupthink and keep voting whoever you fashion while shutting down any dissent. That can never go wrong, right?
        Retric 18y ago
        Did you read the updated version they changed Information to Ideas but it says: Ensure the Full and Free Exchange of Ideas through an Open Internet and Diverse Media Outlets Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet. Edit: I know it's an important issue to some people, but it's not something that's important to voters so it's going to get dropped from speeches.

mattmaroon 18y ago

You basically just mentioned two areas where both candidates somewhat agree. If you widen your scope at all, you see there's a clear difference. Obama's pro gay civil unions and pro choice. He's against torture (which McCain claims to be against, but then voted to essentially give the administration a pass on). He's for habeas corpus for detainees. On the overall topic of civil liberties, it's not even a contest. McCain's views are much closer to those of the people who once held him prisoner than they are anyone who gives a shit about civil liberties. Oh, and Obama is pro net neutrality, McCain isn't. If you can present one instance of McCain supporting a single civil liberty that Obama does not, I'd love to hear it, because I can present scores of the opposite. Is that an honest enough view?

alecco 18y ago
Obama's campaign was caught changing their stance on Net neutrality after Biden was nominated. http://versionista.com/diff/JAS9LMr5qU7q8BSroV8KzQ/ http://versionista.com/diff/JAS9LMr5qU7q8BSroV8KzQ/
- sharkfish 18y ago
  He removed much of the verbiage but he still supports net neutrality (as evidenced in your link).
  - alecco 18y ago
    I didn't say he stopped supporting Net Neutrality. I only said his campaign was caught changing their stance. Not even Obama himself, as I'm sure he doesn't have time to review edits on his website.
    - Retric 18y ago
      If your read the old copy of his page it was much harder for an average voter to understand. So some staffer "cleaned it up" but there is no evidence he changed his mind on that topic.
      - alecco 18y ago
        Just now: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081103-obama-goes-gunning-for-geek-votes.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081103-obama-goes-gun... Perhaps more significantly, there is no reference to network neutrality, perhaps the single tech issue on which the gap between Obama and McCain is most pronounced. At the 2007 Google talk, Obama declared he would "take a backseat to no one in my commitment to network neutrality, because once providers start to privilege some applications or Web sites over others, then the smaller voices get squeezed out and we all lose." They edited out the Network Neutrality part of the videos. Ars Technica says it, not me. Go ahead, mod me down again. Have a nice cozy groupthink and keep voting whoever you fashion while shutting down any dissent. That can never go wrong, right?
        Retric 18y ago
        Did you read the updated version they changed Information to Ideas but it says: Ensure the Full and Free Exchange of Ideas through an Open Internet and Diverse Media Outlets Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet. Edit: I know it's an important issue to some people, but it's not something that's important to voters so it's going to get dropped from speeches.