4 ms·

69 hour work weeks!! This is a county that needs to liberalize their immigration policy to reduce the pressure on their citizens. People deserve better lives th

69 hour work weeks!! This is a county that needs to liberalize their immigration policy to reduce the pressure on their citizens. People deserve better lives than 10 hours daily with no weekends or 12 hours daily with only Sunday off.

Proven 4y ago
[dead]
lyubalesya 4y ago
Without immigration, they will be forced to fix their broken system that has resulted in far-below-replacement fertility. With immigration, they can persist with this soul-crushing work schedule, while their native population dwindles. There is not some fixed amount of work that needs to be done (in Korea specifically, that cannot be outsourced), and Korea simply doesn't have enough people to do it. In fact, if that were the case, then workers would have the advantage in negotiations, and could paradoxically bargain for better working conditions.
rayiner 4y ago
[flagged]
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  I know, right? Or because a constant flux of immigrants is a totally sustainable situation.. We somehow need to be able to view immigration and its effects through a lens of reasoning, and not passionate politics. If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right.
  - runnerup 4y ago
    Seems to have worked fine for the USA government and its constituents for the past 300 years. As long as you ignore the plight of indigenous populations, most of the big problems have been caused by the incumbent populations, not the immigrants.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      The USA is a completely different situation. When Germans and Scandinavian immigrants came, for example, they settled the Midwest and had their own space. Immigration to existing heavily populated places, like Italian immigration to NYC caused huge problems (like the Mafia). Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable.
      - legacynl 4y ago
        Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. > Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable. There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed.
        rayiner 4y ago
        > Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? The Italian mafia was pretty bad! > As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. Also Irish immigrants. It wasn’t just Italians and Irish, but Prohibition may well have succeeded without immigration. > There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. The country’s current problems are deeply rooted in immigration, going back all the way to the dramatic expansion of the federal government under FDR, which was made possible only due to immigrants’ voting patterns. That pattern of newcomers using their numbers to change the politics of the host country is tremendously destabilizing. > Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed. I’m an immigrant so I have every reason to be predisposed to viewing immigration positively. However, my family also left our homeland to come here, so I’m pretty skeptical about cultural change. If I’m being objective, I can’t help but conclude that it creates economic benefits while being detrimental to long-term well being and democracy.
  - legacynl 4y ago
    More people means more people paying VAT, income tax, creating businesses, buying things, etc. > If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right. That's because nobody with your standpoint ever has any evidence to support those claims. Also South Korea (and Japan for example) need to do something about their aging population. Investing in educating migrants is a whole lot better than destroying your economy because you can't pay pensions and don't have enough workers to keep your industry afloat.
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      while on the other hand, you have evidence to support that immigration is beneficial ? the correlation between growth and immigration is because immigrants flock to affluent countries that are on the way up. correlation, not causation.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Well, certainly it's better to work everyone so much they can't enjoy anything about the country anyway. Certainly better than trying to get over your prejudices.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    What does “prejudice” have to do with it?
    - danuker 4y ago
      Your prejudice is that Indians would be a net negative to the economy. Even if they were only fit for lower-skilled work, they'd free up the native workers for native-specific jobs.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Societies aren’t just, or even primarily, economies. Immigrants also have an impact on the society and its culture. I once had a conversation with an American-raised Japanese person who had moved back to Tokyo as an adult. He was telling me about the frustration native Japanese had with his lack of knowledge and familiarity with Japanese rules and social customs. These are rules and norms children are socialized into from birth, by parents who experienced the same socialization themselves. People who don’t know the rules create friction in a well ordered society. I haven’t been to South Korea, but I don’t understand it to be materially different in that respect. As someone from the subcontinent myself, I can pretty much guarantee you that a large influx of Indians wouldn’t be able to follow the rules of South Korea. It would create disorder and disharmony in society. It would also be bad for the immigrants themselves, because they will never be integrated (South Koreans will never recognize immigrants on equal footing) and will become a permanent underclass. You see this with Turkish immigrants in Germany—and that is an individualistic western society. That’s going to be an even bigger problem in a more collectivist society like South Korea.
- kerpotgh 4y ago
  [dead]
japaneseminisub 4y ago
Korean work is hyper competitive. Few good positions, lots of highly educated people. 69 hours is a result of employees needing to prove loyalty and commitment, not that there is too much work to do. Immigration would make this situation worse.

Proven 4y ago

[dead]

lyubalesya 4y ago

Without immigration, they will be forced to fix their broken system that has resulted in far-below-replacement fertility. With immigration, they can persist with this soul-crushing work schedule, while their native population dwindles. There is not some fixed amount of work that needs to be done (in Korea specifically, that cannot be outsourced), and Korea simply doesn't have enough people to do it. In fact, if that were the case, then workers would have the advantage in negotiations, and could paradoxically bargain for better working conditions.

rayiner 4y ago

[flagged]

4gotunameagain 4y ago
I know, right? Or because a constant flux of immigrants is a totally sustainable situation.. We somehow need to be able to view immigration and its effects through a lens of reasoning, and not passionate politics. If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right.
- runnerup 4y ago
  Seems to have worked fine for the USA government and its constituents for the past 300 years. As long as you ignore the plight of indigenous populations, most of the big problems have been caused by the incumbent populations, not the immigrants.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    The USA is a completely different situation. When Germans and Scandinavian immigrants came, for example, they settled the Midwest and had their own space. Immigration to existing heavily populated places, like Italian immigration to NYC caused huge problems (like the Mafia). Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable.
    - legacynl 4y ago
      Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. > Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but america is completely ungovernable. There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        > Wow, so because there was an italian mafia in NYC, you conclude from that that immigration to populated places is bad? The Italian mafia was pretty bad! > As far as I know there were a lot of people trying to make money of selling booze during the prohibition-era, not just italian immigrants. Also Irish immigrants. It wasn’t just Italians and Irish, but Prohibition may well have succeeded without immigration. > There are a thousand reasons why the US is having a hard time politically right now, and none of them have to do with immigration. The country’s current problems are deeply rooted in immigration, going back all the way to the dramatic expansion of the federal government under FDR, which was made possible only due to immigrants’ voting patterns. That pattern of newcomers using their numbers to change the politics of the host country is tremendously destabilizing. > Do you have any more reasons for believing these things? Because if that's it, you're either willfully ignorant, or just very uninformed. I’m an immigrant so I have every reason to be predisposed to viewing immigration positively. However, my family also left our homeland to come here, so I’m pretty skeptical about cultural change. If I’m being objective, I can’t help but conclude that it creates economic benefits while being detrimental to long-term well being and democracy.
- legacynl 4y ago
  More people means more people paying VAT, income tax, creating businesses, buying things, etc. > If you suggest that maybe, you know, a lot of immigration or immigration of uneducated workers is bad, automatically you are somehow far right. That's because nobody with your standpoint ever has any evidence to support those claims. Also South Korea (and Japan for example) need to do something about their aging population. Investing in educating migrants is a whole lot better than destroying your economy because you can't pay pensions and don't have enough workers to keep your industry afloat.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    while on the other hand, you have evidence to support that immigration is beneficial ? the correlation between growth and immigration is because immigrants flock to affluent countries that are on the way up. correlation, not causation.
roflyear 4y ago
Well, certainly it's better to work everyone so much they can't enjoy anything about the country anyway. Certainly better than trying to get over your prejudices.
- rayiner 4y ago
  What does “prejudice” have to do with it?
  - danuker 4y ago
    Your prejudice is that Indians would be a net negative to the economy. Even if they were only fit for lower-skilled work, they'd free up the native workers for native-specific jobs.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Societies aren’t just, or even primarily, economies. Immigrants also have an impact on the society and its culture. I once had a conversation with an American-raised Japanese person who had moved back to Tokyo as an adult. He was telling me about the frustration native Japanese had with his lack of knowledge and familiarity with Japanese rules and social customs. These are rules and norms children are socialized into from birth, by parents who experienced the same socialization themselves. People who don’t know the rules create friction in a well ordered society. I haven’t been to South Korea, but I don’t understand it to be materially different in that respect. As someone from the subcontinent myself, I can pretty much guarantee you that a large influx of Indians wouldn’t be able to follow the rules of South Korea. It would create disorder and disharmony in society. It would also be bad for the immigrants themselves, because they will never be integrated (South Koreans will never recognize immigrants on equal footing) and will become a permanent underclass. You see this with Turkish immigrants in Germany—and that is an individualistic western society. That’s going to be an even bigger problem in a more collectivist society like South Korea.
kerpotgh 4y ago
[dead]

japaneseminisub 4y ago

Korean work is hyper competitive. Few good positions, lots of highly educated people. 69 hours is a result of employees needing to prove loyalty and commitment, not that there is too much work to do. Immigration would make this situation worse.