4 ms·
The little-known world of caterpillars
- Forestessential 4y agohow do you read it if you aren't cool?
- bcbrown 4y agoThe paywall is implemented in Javascript; the article loads fine with Javascript disabled.
- zabzonk 4y ago> No one’s ever seen this before Except for (at least) the guy that discovered and presumably named it - André Blanchard? The article is full of this kind of stuff.
- nuclearnice3 4y agoPerhaps Wager meant no one had seen the juvenile form. Blanchard had a holotype of the moth only. [1] [1] https://archive.org/details/cbarchive_49606_anewspeciesinthegenusursiabarn1884/page/n1/mode/2up?q=Blanchard https://archive.org/details/cbarchive_49606_anewspeciesinthe...
- zabzonk 4y agoBut how would he know that the caterpilar was that of the adult? Not saying it wasn't, but without observing its life-cycle, or DNA testing it would be impossible to say. You can't simply whack a bush and then say "nobody has seen this critter before". Please note that this is a criticism of the journalism, which I think is crap, not the science.
- kevinwang 4y agoIt's mentioned though: > Based on a series of taxonomic calculations, Wagner was convinced that the caterpillar was the juvenile form of an exceptionally rare moth known as Ursia furtiva.
- thaumasiotes 4y agoHypothetically, how could taxonomic calculations conceivably tell you that an unknown animal form belongs to a known species? They can tell you that the form you're looking at is related to certain other known forms. That's it.
- Kaijo 4y agoWith additional knowledge about biogeography, species ranges, species sampling coverage / description rates, already proven adult-larvae identity and so forth, they can get you sufficiently in the ballpark to make a strong prediction that in popular reportage is forgiveably rendered as "sure". Wagner is a career lepidopterist and an authority on caterpillars. He will be intimately familiar with caterpillars in the family Notodontidae (which contains the genus Ursia) and know their characteristic morphology and diversity. There are only two species known in the genus Ursia. The other one has a more southwesterly range and is not known to occur in Texas. Also, the caterpillars of species in closely related genera in the Notodontidae are well-surveyed. So, looking at a shrub in the range of Ursia furtiva and finding a caterpillar that fits the bill in terms of expected morphological characters, and being able to rule out its belonging to closely related genera, it's a reasonable leap of logic to attribute the larva to that particular species only previously known by its adult form. It's not "certain" at that point, but as a biologist who spends his life researching those taxa, and knowing well where the missing gaps are, it's the kind of hunch that is very often proved correct.
- Kaijo 4y agoI tried to give an explanation further down this comment thread, if you're interested
- nuclearnice3 4y agoDo we agree that Blanchard saw the moth and the journalist is quoting someone looking at the caterpillar?
- bmitc 4y agoWhat happens to a caterpillar's brain and nervous system during its transformation to a butterfly? Does it remain? Is it completely replaced? What is the likelihood that a butterfly remembers its life as a caterpillar?
- rcme 4y agoSeems like you could test that via negative stimulus. Introduce a negative stimulus like a shock associated with something perceivable by both the caterpillar and butterfly. After conditioning the caterpillar, see if the butterfly shares the same aversion to the stimulus.
- villaaston1 4y agoThis has been tested! In moths at least: > Manduca sexta caterpillars received an electrical shock associatively paired with a specific odor in order to create a conditioned odor aversion, and were assayed for learning in a Y choice apparatus as larvae and again as adult moths. We show that larvae learned to avoid the training odor, and that this aversion was still present in the adults. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0001736 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
- Grothendank 4y ago[flagged]
- cdbyr 4y agoThe article mentions that memories are maintained - I didn’t see a source, but here is an article about it: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13412-butterflies-remember-caterpillar-experiences/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13412-butterflies-rem...
- f5ve 4y agoThe caterpillar turns to mush. Its nervous system seamlessly morphs into a new one. Many neurons are retained, some are pruned, and some new ones are formed. This is why certain memories can be retained and certain ones can't.
- kevinwang 4y agoDamn, that was the most fun article I've read in a long time!
- neonate 4y agohttp://web.archive.org/web/20230318031739/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/20/the-little-known-world-of-caterpillars http://web.archive.org/web/20230318031739/https://www.newyor... https://archive.ph/YjeuX https://archive.ph/YjeuX