4 ms·

Not to make a joke, but after asking me for a souvenir idea my roommate's German boyfriend said "...a gun?" 1)Germany is large too with different dialects. The

by mohene1 15y ago

Not to make a joke, but after asking me for a souvenir idea my roommate's German boyfriend said "...a gun?" 1)Germany is large too with different dialects. The point was that the US once produced these things (guitars, bicycles, etc) now we don't. And the younger people who can produce them are wising up and taking jobs in finance. The BBC made a documentary about this just this year. Fender Guitars was sold to CBS Corporation and quickly mass produced with cheaper woods. European: Tag-Heuer, Zeno Basel Watches, smaller watch makers, furniture, there are still towns with thriving silverware companies in Southwest Germany 2)Every country is an amalgam of cultures, Yes Winchester rifles of Jonathan Browning are definitely American 3)They use different, more expensive grains (rye, whole wheat) and sourdoughs which do exist in the US but only in a few locations. Baklava is hard to find outside college towns and metro areas in the US, this makes it unique

tkahn6 15y ago
> 1)Germany is large too with different dialects. The US is 27 times the size of Germany. > Every country is an amalgam of cultures, No European country is even remotely close to the US in terms of diversity. The US is a nation of immigrants. There is no American 'people' in the same way there is a German people. America is not a nation-state. Germany has many different areas with different dialects but these are indigenous to Germany. > the point was that the US once produced these things (guitars, bicycles, etc) now we don't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_brands_and_manufacturing_companies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_brands_and_manu... Ctrl + f 'USA', many are defunct yes, but many are not. You are factually incorrect. > They use different, more expensive grains (rye, whole wheat) and sourdoughs which do exist in the US but only in a few locations. Not only do bakeries exist in the US that use locally grown whole wheat and rye, bakeries also have the option of importing these ingredients from areas that do have whole wheat and rye. Have you never had a New York sourdough bagel? > Baklava is hard to find outside college towns and metro areas in the US, this makes it unique Baklava is hardly unique to Iran unless you expressly call it 'Iranian baklava'. And if you do that, why not call American-made baklava, 'American baklava'?
- gaius 15y ago
  No European country is even remotely close to the US in terms of diversity England surpasses it.
- mohene1 15y ago
  1,2) Your point was "large" in terms of distinct regions, I think implying that the US has a harder time to have our products accepted as opposed to a more homogeneous society. I think diversity and culture is a separate issue. I dont have experience marketing products in Germany, but like I said almost every country has unique 3) The bicycle companies you listed, most USA brands have shipped production overseas do to labor prices. Off the top of my head, I can think of Trek and Cannondale as the only true mass produced bicycle manufacturers left in the United States. I am not saying there is something not good about the US. I am saying that the lack in quality demanded has left us wish cheaper products that can't demand the prices that will employ engineers. In turn, young engineers are leaving to the finance sector. Here's an excerpt from the BBC documentary. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4081937.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4081937.stm 4. "Bakery" in the US means cakes, brownies, and cookies not artisan breads which requires fairly skilled workers to make. Only in Connecticut, Western Massachusetts, San Fran, Boston, St. Louis, and New York can you really find artisan bakeries in the US. But this point was made to establish the uniqueness and quality demanded by the consumer. German Bread as Cultural Heritage: http://www.goethe.de/ges/mol/typ/en8187653.htm http://www.goethe.de/ges/mol/typ/en8187653.htm 5) You are right baklava is not unique to Iran, but the Iranian spices used were unique to this Baklava. The point is that the consumer demanded/expected a level of quality which is unique to their culture.
  - tkahn6 15y ago
    > I am saying that the lack in quality demanded has left us wish cheaper products that can't demand the prices that will employ engineers. If you actually click through those links on the page, you'll find that many are local hand-made bicycle manufacturers. I don't see how mass production is related to 'quality demand' or why out sourced products are necessarily inferior in quality. Certainly Apple products are not inferior in quality. In fact the argument you are making about out sourcing is a completely different argument. > Only in Connecticut, Western Massachusetts, San Fran, Boston, St. Louis, and New York can you really find artisan bakeries in the US. Incorrect. http://www.bbga.org/find_members http://www.bbga.org/find_members > The point is that the consumer demanded/expected a level of quality which is unique to their culture. You were able to glean this insight into Iranian culture because your friend brought you back baklava hand-made with indigenous spices.
kahawe 15y ago
> now we don't. Yes, yes you still do. Iron horse, Kona, Fuji, Cannondale.... Mesa, Fryette, DrZ, Carr, divided by 13, 65amp, 2Rock, Fuchs, Lovepedal, Catalinbread, Earthquaker Dev, Devi Ever, Death by Audio, CMATMODS, Dwarfcraft... Lollar, Lindy Fralin... etc etc etc Need I go on? > Germany is large too with different dialects Sorry to burst your romantic bubble but... more or less slightly different dialects yes, but still it is one culture. Austria is even smaller and we have a TON of dialects and even parts with different languages. And Germany is actually pretty small, most towns are nowhere as huge as your megacities and people here live close together, I wish I had as much space as you guys do.
- mohene1 15y ago
  I rescind my statement about there being no product from the US that has value and is unique, which would in turn spawn the need for non-software engineers. Peavey Amps is such a product. I don't accept the "we are too large excuse"...China is large and has unique products, but like I said the US does have unique products. I could have used better examples... But just to answer some side notes that were mentioned: First I am not talking about small two or three men teams of engineers, my post referred to engineering companies who can support a workforce as a result of consumer demand. >Yes, yes you still do Damn you MTBers :) This makes sense, we invented mountain biking so yes. I was focused more on companies who design, produce and research bikes here in the USA because this produces jobs. When I mentioned Schwinn, remember Schwinn employed 1000-2000 people. I consider Trek and Cannondale to be in the same level as Schwinn. Trek actually recruits mechanical engineers. Peavy Amps at one time recruited engineers, but the main question is "Does Catalinbread recruit engineers, et. al?" A lot of those companies are small offices with production coming from Taiwan or China so the impact on Engineers here in the US is minimal. > Germany is large too with different dialects Slightly different? Do you consider a Bavarian accent similar to a Schwebish accent? Let's not get lost... Anyway, does this smallness account for the fact that Germany has unique cultural products like certain varieties of rye bread, cheese, balsamic vinegar, or watches.
  - kahawe 15y ago
    I have to say, I agree with your general resentment but I had to set those examples straight because they actually do not support your point. Most of those small, boutique shops probably don't recruit a lot of people, I am sure of that. But in turn they source material or services from other small/middle-sized companies, usually in the USA. But I guess most of that designing, producing and researching is going on in the software and electronics sector though examples like Apple show just how much they outsourced to China. Also, I am not sure how much R&D you have in the automotive industry or plant construction or petrochemistry or other more "classical" industries in the USA? There are definitely a lot of strong players in those fields over here, middle to large sized. Maybe those industries would make better examples for your article? > Anyway, does this smallness account for the fact that Germany has unique cultural products like certain varieties of rye bread, cheese, balsamic vinegar, or watches. Austria is even smaller, we still have at least as much variety of rye bread, beer, cheese, meat products, balsamic and other foods. Hobbits would probably go to Austria for all the food, beer and wine and our Gemütlichkeit! :) You will not find a country with that many different kinds of wine and there is a HUGE market for organic food, people there care about that much more than they do here in Germany. In Austria you will also find steel and saw mills, plant construction and automation, a TON of automotive engineering and manufacturing, also weapons manufacturing and the list could go on.... I think what accounts for it is rather the history and the fact that central Europe has always been one big melting pot for different cultures and people. But the USA, you are pretty damn heavy in the whole entertainment industry and all things IT, PC and software... and you still have Boeing, too. And the whole arms or arms-related industry! Disclaimer: I'm an Austrian working in Germany for a couple of years now... :)
anamax 15y ago
> 1)Germany is large too with different dialects It's not large on US scale. And, compared to the US, it's a monoculture. Seriously - there's more diversity in a San Jose strip mall than in a major German city. (Dialects? I've got several restaurants where the vast majority of the patrons speak different languages within 1 mile of my house.)

by mohene1 15y ago

tkahn6 15y ago

> 1)Germany is large too with different dialects. The US is 27 times the size of Germany. > Every country is an amalgam of cultures, No European country is even remotely close to the US in terms of diversity. The US is a nation of immigrants. There is no American 'people' in the same way there is a German people. America is not a nation-state. Germany has many different areas with different dialects but these are indigenous to Germany. > the point was that the US once produced these things (guitars, bicycles, etc) now we don't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_brands_and_manufacturing_companies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_brands_and_manu... Ctrl + f 'USA', many are defunct yes, but many are not. You are factually incorrect. > They use different, more expensive grains (rye, whole wheat) and sourdoughs which do exist in the US but only in a few locations. Not only do bakeries exist in the US that use locally grown whole wheat and rye, bakeries also have the option of importing these ingredients from areas that do have whole wheat and rye. Have you never had a New York sourdough bagel? > Baklava is hard to find outside college towns and metro areas in the US, this makes it unique Baklava is hardly unique to Iran unless you expressly call it 'Iranian baklava'. And if you do that, why not call American-made baklava, 'American baklava'?

gaius 15y ago
No European country is even remotely close to the US in terms of diversity England surpasses it.
mohene1 15y ago
1,2) Your point was "large" in terms of distinct regions, I think implying that the US has a harder time to have our products accepted as opposed to a more homogeneous society. I think diversity and culture is a separate issue. I dont have experience marketing products in Germany, but like I said almost every country has unique 3) The bicycle companies you listed, most USA brands have shipped production overseas do to labor prices. Off the top of my head, I can think of Trek and Cannondale as the only true mass produced bicycle manufacturers left in the United States. I am not saying there is something not good about the US. I am saying that the lack in quality demanded has left us wish cheaper products that can't demand the prices that will employ engineers. In turn, young engineers are leaving to the finance sector. Here's an excerpt from the BBC documentary. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4081937.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4081937.stm 4. "Bakery" in the US means cakes, brownies, and cookies not artisan breads which requires fairly skilled workers to make. Only in Connecticut, Western Massachusetts, San Fran, Boston, St. Louis, and New York can you really find artisan bakeries in the US. But this point was made to establish the uniqueness and quality demanded by the consumer. German Bread as Cultural Heritage: http://www.goethe.de/ges/mol/typ/en8187653.htm http://www.goethe.de/ges/mol/typ/en8187653.htm 5) You are right baklava is not unique to Iran, but the Iranian spices used were unique to this Baklava. The point is that the consumer demanded/expected a level of quality which is unique to their culture.
- tkahn6 15y ago
  > I am saying that the lack in quality demanded has left us wish cheaper products that can't demand the prices that will employ engineers. If you actually click through those links on the page, you'll find that many are local hand-made bicycle manufacturers. I don't see how mass production is related to 'quality demand' or why out sourced products are necessarily inferior in quality. Certainly Apple products are not inferior in quality. In fact the argument you are making about out sourcing is a completely different argument. > Only in Connecticut, Western Massachusetts, San Fran, Boston, St. Louis, and New York can you really find artisan bakeries in the US. Incorrect. http://www.bbga.org/find_members http://www.bbga.org/find_members > The point is that the consumer demanded/expected a level of quality which is unique to their culture. You were able to glean this insight into Iranian culture because your friend brought you back baklava hand-made with indigenous spices.

kahawe 15y ago

> now we don't. Yes, yes you still do. Iron horse, Kona, Fuji, Cannondale.... Mesa, Fryette, DrZ, Carr, divided by 13, 65amp, 2Rock, Fuchs, Lovepedal, Catalinbread, Earthquaker Dev, Devi Ever, Death by Audio, CMATMODS, Dwarfcraft... Lollar, Lindy Fralin... etc etc etc Need I go on? > Germany is large too with different dialects Sorry to burst your romantic bubble but... more or less slightly different dialects yes, but still it is one culture. Austria is even smaller and we have a TON of dialects and even parts with different languages. And Germany is actually pretty small, most towns are nowhere as huge as your megacities and people here live close together, I wish I had as much space as you guys do.

mohene1 15y ago
I rescind my statement about there being no product from the US that has value and is unique, which would in turn spawn the need for non-software engineers. Peavey Amps is such a product. I don't accept the "we are too large excuse"...China is large and has unique products, but like I said the US does have unique products. I could have used better examples... But just to answer some side notes that were mentioned: First I am not talking about small two or three men teams of engineers, my post referred to engineering companies who can support a workforce as a result of consumer demand. >Yes, yes you still do Damn you MTBers :) This makes sense, we invented mountain biking so yes. I was focused more on companies who design, produce and research bikes here in the USA because this produces jobs. When I mentioned Schwinn, remember Schwinn employed 1000-2000 people. I consider Trek and Cannondale to be in the same level as Schwinn. Trek actually recruits mechanical engineers. Peavy Amps at one time recruited engineers, but the main question is "Does Catalinbread recruit engineers, et. al?" A lot of those companies are small offices with production coming from Taiwan or China so the impact on Engineers here in the US is minimal. > Germany is large too with different dialects Slightly different? Do you consider a Bavarian accent similar to a Schwebish accent? Let's not get lost... Anyway, does this smallness account for the fact that Germany has unique cultural products like certain varieties of rye bread, cheese, balsamic vinegar, or watches.
- kahawe 15y ago
  I have to say, I agree with your general resentment but I had to set those examples straight because they actually do not support your point. Most of those small, boutique shops probably don't recruit a lot of people, I am sure of that. But in turn they source material or services from other small/middle-sized companies, usually in the USA. But I guess most of that designing, producing and researching is going on in the software and electronics sector though examples like Apple show just how much they outsourced to China. Also, I am not sure how much R&D you have in the automotive industry or plant construction or petrochemistry or other more "classical" industries in the USA? There are definitely a lot of strong players in those fields over here, middle to large sized. Maybe those industries would make better examples for your article? > Anyway, does this smallness account for the fact that Germany has unique cultural products like certain varieties of rye bread, cheese, balsamic vinegar, or watches. Austria is even smaller, we still have at least as much variety of rye bread, beer, cheese, meat products, balsamic and other foods. Hobbits would probably go to Austria for all the food, beer and wine and our Gemütlichkeit! :) You will not find a country with that many different kinds of wine and there is a HUGE market for organic food, people there care about that much more than they do here in Germany. In Austria you will also find steel and saw mills, plant construction and automation, a TON of automotive engineering and manufacturing, also weapons manufacturing and the list could go on.... I think what accounts for it is rather the history and the fact that central Europe has always been one big melting pot for different cultures and people. But the USA, you are pretty damn heavy in the whole entertainment industry and all things IT, PC and software... and you still have Boeing, too. And the whole arms or arms-related industry! Disclaimer: I'm an Austrian working in Germany for a couple of years now... :)

anamax 15y ago

> 1)Germany is large too with different dialects It's not large on US scale. And, compared to the US, it's a monoculture. Seriously - there's more diversity in a San Jose strip mall than in a major German city. (Dialects? I've got several restaurants where the vast majority of the patrons speak different languages within 1 mile of my house.)