3 ms·

Fines unfairly affect the poor. The punishment should be community service, say highway trash pickup.

by nickthegreek 4y ago

triceratops 4y ago
Not sure how that's better. Poor people are more likely to have jobs with inflexible hours.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Because when you're poor getting screwed out of hundreds of dollars because Karen who has the ear of legislators thinks we need to be tough on on <class of petty misdbehavior> causes a cascading problem in which you have to choose who to stiff (landlord? utilities? phone bill?) this month, who to stiff slightly less next month, etc, etc as you get back on track. It's like perverse version of that 9-square tile puzzle with one tile missing where if you make any wrong moves your standard of living gets kicked down substantially and you spend months to years getting your financial stability back to where it was. Getting screwed out of 4-8hr of your time is much less likely to make your standard of living and financial stability slide backwards in a way that takes many months to a year to correct. Of course the majority of support for people who are in favor of anything other than the status quo comes from people who want petty stuff to be maximally life-interrupting so....
  - triceratops 4y ago
    What if you get fired from your job because your mandatory community service is at the same time as your shift? All I'm saying is it's not clear-cut that community service is less disruptive to the poor than a fine. Maybe the fine should be a percentage of your income instead of a fixed number, as is done in some places.
  - prirun 4y ago
    > thinks we need to be tough on on <class of petty misdbehavior> I can see your point, so instead of increasing the fine for texting, I would be fine with losing your license permanently if you are using a phone while driving (talking or texting) and are at fault (any percentage) in an accident.
q845712 4y ago
sliding scale? https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-t... Almost any penalty one can come up with will be harder for the already-disadvantaged, and still shrugged off by someone with sufficient resources.
Gigachad 4y ago
Imagine how fast public transport would improve if we just skipped fines and handed out multi year license bans instead. Would disproportionately affect rich people living in suburbs.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >Would disproportionately affect rich people living in suburbs. I.e. the people who are financially secure enough to have spare fucks to give about matters of principal rather than economic survival. Legislatures that want to get reelected can't just screw those people. It's a long slow process of divide and conqueror and pulling that off assumed continued political will.
cozzyd 4y ago
Just fine x% the value of the car being driven.

Fines unfairly affect the poor. The punishment should be community service, say highway trash pickup.

triceratops 4y ago

Not sure how that's better. Poor people are more likely to have jobs with inflexible hours.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Because when you're poor getting screwed out of hundreds of dollars because Karen who has the ear of legislators thinks we need to be tough on on <class of petty misdbehavior> causes a cascading problem in which you have to choose who to stiff (landlord? utilities? phone bill?) this month, who to stiff slightly less next month, etc, etc as you get back on track. It's like perverse version of that 9-square tile puzzle with one tile missing where if you make any wrong moves your standard of living gets kicked down substantially and you spend months to years getting your financial stability back to where it was. Getting screwed out of 4-8hr of your time is much less likely to make your standard of living and financial stability slide backwards in a way that takes many months to a year to correct. Of course the majority of support for people who are in favor of anything other than the status quo comes from people who want petty stuff to be maximally life-interrupting so....
- triceratops 4y ago
  What if you get fired from your job because your mandatory community service is at the same time as your shift? All I'm saying is it's not clear-cut that community service is less disruptive to the poor than a fine. Maybe the fine should be a percentage of your income instead of a fixed number, as is done in some places.
- prirun 4y ago
  > thinks we need to be tough on on <class of petty misdbehavior> I can see your point, so instead of increasing the fine for texting, I would be fine with losing your license permanently if you are using a phone while driving (talking or texting) and are at fault (any percentage) in an accident.

q845712 4y ago

sliding scale? https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-t... Almost any penalty one can come up with will be harder for the already-disadvantaged, and still shrugged off by someone with sufficient resources.

Gigachad 4y ago

Imagine how fast public transport would improve if we just skipped fines and handed out multi year license bans instead. Would disproportionately affect rich people living in suburbs.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>Would disproportionately affect rich people living in suburbs. I.e. the people who are financially secure enough to have spare fucks to give about matters of principal rather than economic survival. Legislatures that want to get reelected can't just screw those people. It's a long slow process of divide and conqueror and pulling that off assumed continued political will.

cozzyd 4y ago

Just fine x% the value of the car being driven.