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Maybe there’s no point and it’s an artifact that reminds us that even HN designers weren’t “nothing left to take away”-level social engineers from the beginning

by wruza 4y ago

Maybe there’s no point and it’s an artifact that reminds us that even HN designers weren’t “nothing left to take away”-level social engineers from the beginning. Few things about public comment karma: Expanded karma may glimpse into divisiveness (e.g. +50/-50) but also encourages it, by definition. Downvotes on HN, as I understand it, are only for bad manners or the obvious wrongness, even if throwed subjectively. In these terms, +50/-50 basically means the forum is dead as we know it. There’s no reason to show downvotes because if there’s so many then a comment should have been flagged long before. If there’s divisiveness, we should just discuss (or poll) it, that’s what the forum is for. Otherwise, visible comment score doesn’t feel too bad. But hiding it is a good thing, imo. This makes the content less stackoverflow-y, and this place is not a Q&A forum either.

_ajoj 4y ago
> are only for bad manners or the obvious wrongness Downvotes are used to suppress opinions. I see it all the time, especially on Reddit. A lot of people talk on anecdotal evidence. This is the nature of conversation. If you don’t like it move on. But some people relish downvoting because they cannot fathom a world in which others have arrived at different conclusions. Downvotes I think are a bad solution to the problem.
- Macha 4y ago
  Since people have become widely aware of the effect of flags on the ranking algorithm, it actually feels like flags have become the dominant tool of abuse in that channel.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
> Downvotes on HN, as I understand it, are only for bad manners or the obvious wrongness, even if throwed subjectively. They are very much thrown casually and often to suppress opinions or to rate limit people without arguing I have had situations where I expressed that I will play the devil's advocate hoping to get interesting conversations out of it, and they certainly happened, but I was quickly rate limited. I have heavily downvoted when I called out certain beliefs and positions while providing citations in favour of my position. I have seen comments and posts wrongfully flagged, and I have observed in real time waves of downvotes to comments (by keeping track of the account's karma over time) without any other form engagement in the removed post. I have had people downvote all of my criticism for a particular post / claim / approach because the author was famous without proper engagement or assessment of my claims or arguments. The responses were all woefully uneducated in the subject and resorted to insults and other juvenile remarks instead of substance. At the same time, I saw ad-hominems and otherwise detestable and inexcusable behaviour getting excused and even upvoted.

by wruza 4y ago

_ajoj 4y ago

> are only for bad manners or the obvious wrongness Downvotes are used to suppress opinions. I see it all the time, especially on Reddit. A lot of people talk on anecdotal evidence. This is the nature of conversation. If you don’t like it move on. But some people relish downvoting because they cannot fathom a world in which others have arrived at different conclusions. Downvotes I think are a bad solution to the problem.

Macha 4y ago
Since people have become widely aware of the effect of flags on the ranking algorithm, it actually feels like flags have become the dominant tool of abuse in that channel.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

> Downvotes on HN, as I understand it, are only for bad manners or the obvious wrongness, even if throwed subjectively. They are very much thrown casually and often to suppress opinions or to rate limit people without arguing I have had situations where I expressed that I will play the devil's advocate hoping to get interesting conversations out of it, and they certainly happened, but I was quickly rate limited. I have heavily downvoted when I called out certain beliefs and positions while providing citations in favour of my position. I have seen comments and posts wrongfully flagged, and I have observed in real time waves of downvotes to comments (by keeping track of the account's karma over time) without any other form engagement in the removed post. I have had people downvote all of my criticism for a particular post / claim / approach because the author was famous without proper engagement or assessment of my claims or arguments. The responses were all woefully uneducated in the subject and resorted to insults and other juvenile remarks instead of substance. At the same time, I saw ad-hominems and otherwise detestable and inexcusable behaviour getting excused and even upvoted.