4 ms·

Here’s evidence： Harvard study linking preexisting mental illness to Long Covid claims: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/09/depression-anxiety-may-e

Here’s evidence： Harvard study linking preexisting mental illness to Long Covid claims: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/09/depression-anxiety-may-escalate-chances-of-long-covid-says-study/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/09/depression-an... Journal article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583?st=ceevgyo76ear3zb&reflink=article_copyURL_share https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-cov... Overlap with fibromyalgia, which is also untestable and mainly in depressed middle age white women: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34426540/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34426540/ It’s hokum.

ok_dad 4y ago
Not evidence that proves 3000 people are scamming. If anything, that evidence might show that we're not totally sure long covid is a thing, or it's underlying issues being surfaced. I specifically am arguing against jumping to the "scammer" conclusion immediately and without any question. I totally forgot HN is full of medical doctors who know everything about covid and it's effects.
Madmallard 4y ago
These types of cringeworthy responses are really common and it's really a detriment to society. Whether it be astroturfing or other means originally founded by pharmaceutical companies knowing they originally did not test drugs for mitochondrial toxicity prior to Phase 1 trials, the source remains to be seen. The fact is that people are by and large developing metabolic dysfunction earlier on, and things like antibiotics drastically accelerate the problem. Bactericidal antibiotics are widely known in research now to be seriously toxic to mitochondria and the damage they cause leads to chronic processes because mitochondria do not have effective repair mechanisms outside of copies. When they start reproducing mutated copies, the person does not get off scot-free anymore. Processed foods and air pollution and chemical exposures from foods and other things all additionally cause more dysregulation. This is all becoming way more widely known. Some percentage of people will just not bounce back after these insults. Respiratory viruses and bacterial infections induce a large amount of oxidative stress in the human body, largely caused by your own immune system. Normally, your body has redox mechanisms to balance this out so you are fine in the end (otherwise running would cause a lot of problems really quickly!). But combining our toxic environment, toxic antibiotics that most people take (and many women take bactericidal antibiotics for UTIs!), high processed food diets leading to excessive baseline OS, you potentiate the risk for the individuals own mitochondrial machinery to be severely damaged from a high OS insult. After that, you don't bounce back. You develop chronic fatigue and severe exercise intolerance, and have much more precarious relationships with other illnesses. This is what's happening. Depression other mental disorders are already strongly associated with metabolic dysregulation in research. Don't blame the victims. It's likely you'll become one yourself before you're very old. Everyone is getting sicker.
- simmerup 4y ago
  This is a very good comment. So you put metabolic syndrome down to impairments in mitochondrial function? What’s your view on reversing the damage? I’ve seen studies that saying fasting can improve mitochondrial function.
  - Madmallard 4y ago
    Lots of things can improve it. eating healthy, reducing chronic stress, sleeping well, fasting, HIIT. mitochondria are the victims of everything detrimental to the body because they're integral to the body in general. Likewise they are benefactors of many things beneficial to the body. Mitochondrial function impairment is integral to most chronic disease processes. It's not really like a novel thing. It's just expected.
FreakLegion 4y ago
None of these are evidence of anything. 1. The Harvard write-up explicitly disagrees with you: > Mental health is known to affect the outcomes of some diseases. . . In other acute respiratory tract infections, such as flu or common cold, mental health conditions are associated with greater severity and longer duration of symptoms. Previous studies have also suggested that distress is associated with chronic symptoms following Lyme disease and in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, which have symptoms similar to those of long COVID. 2. The Wall Street Journal opinion piece was written by a medical trainee and widely ridiculed by established professionals. It was also rebutted in separate Wall Street Journal opinion pieces at https://www.wsj.com/articles/covids-lasting-effects-deserve-rigorous-study-11616953207 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covids-lasting-effects-deserve-.... 3. The PubMed abstract also explicitly disagrees with you. You said "mainly in depressed middle age[sic] white women". The linked page says "Conclusion: Our data suggest that clinical features of FM are common in patients who recovered from COVID-19 and that obesity and male gender affect the risk of developing post-COVID-19 FM." Emphasis mine.

ok_dad 4y ago

Not evidence that proves 3000 people are scamming. If anything, that evidence might show that we're not totally sure long covid is a thing, or it's underlying issues being surfaced. I specifically am arguing against jumping to the "scammer" conclusion immediately and without any question. I totally forgot HN is full of medical doctors who know everything about covid and it's effects.

Madmallard 4y ago

These types of cringeworthy responses are really common and it's really a detriment to society. Whether it be astroturfing or other means originally founded by pharmaceutical companies knowing they originally did not test drugs for mitochondrial toxicity prior to Phase 1 trials, the source remains to be seen. The fact is that people are by and large developing metabolic dysfunction earlier on, and things like antibiotics drastically accelerate the problem. Bactericidal antibiotics are widely known in research now to be seriously toxic to mitochondria and the damage they cause leads to chronic processes because mitochondria do not have effective repair mechanisms outside of copies. When they start reproducing mutated copies, the person does not get off scot-free anymore. Processed foods and air pollution and chemical exposures from foods and other things all additionally cause more dysregulation. This is all becoming way more widely known. Some percentage of people will just not bounce back after these insults. Respiratory viruses and bacterial infections induce a large amount of oxidative stress in the human body, largely caused by your own immune system. Normally, your body has redox mechanisms to balance this out so you are fine in the end (otherwise running would cause a lot of problems really quickly!). But combining our toxic environment, toxic antibiotics that most people take (and many women take bactericidal antibiotics for UTIs!), high processed food diets leading to excessive baseline OS, you potentiate the risk for the individuals own mitochondrial machinery to be severely damaged from a high OS insult. After that, you don't bounce back. You develop chronic fatigue and severe exercise intolerance, and have much more precarious relationships with other illnesses. This is what's happening. Depression other mental disorders are already strongly associated with metabolic dysregulation in research. Don't blame the victims. It's likely you'll become one yourself before you're very old. Everyone is getting sicker.

simmerup 4y ago
This is a very good comment. So you put metabolic syndrome down to impairments in mitochondrial function? What’s your view on reversing the damage? I’ve seen studies that saying fasting can improve mitochondrial function.
- Madmallard 4y ago
  Lots of things can improve it. eating healthy, reducing chronic stress, sleeping well, fasting, HIIT. mitochondria are the victims of everything detrimental to the body because they're integral to the body in general. Likewise they are benefactors of many things beneficial to the body. Mitochondrial function impairment is integral to most chronic disease processes. It's not really like a novel thing. It's just expected.

FreakLegion 4y ago

None of these are evidence of anything. 1. The Harvard write-up explicitly disagrees with you: > Mental health is known to affect the outcomes of some diseases. . . In other acute respiratory tract infections, such as flu or common cold, mental health conditions are associated with greater severity and longer duration of symptoms. Previous studies have also suggested that distress is associated with chronic symptoms following Lyme disease and in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, which have symptoms similar to those of long COVID. 2. The Wall Street Journal opinion piece was written by a medical trainee and widely ridiculed by established professionals. It was also rebutted in separate Wall Street Journal opinion pieces at https://www.wsj.com/articles/covids-lasting-effects-deserve-rigorous-study-11616953207 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covids-lasting-effects-deserve-.... 3. The PubMed abstract also explicitly disagrees with you. You said "mainly in depressed middle age[sic] white women". The linked page says "Conclusion: Our data suggest that clinical features of FM are common in patients who recovered from COVID-19 and that obesity and male gender affect the risk of developing post-COVID-19 FM." Emphasis mine.