4 ms·

> The Innocent Project estimates that 1% of all prisoners are innocent. It's worse than this. The Innocence Project estimates 2-10% of convictions are wrongfu

by mlyle 4y ago

> The Innocent Project estimates that 1% of all prisoners are innocent. It's worse than this. The Innocence Project estimates 2-10% of convictions are wrongful. But even worse, many of the people we're talking about are still awaiting trial-- presumably they are innocent at a greater rate than those convicted.

Syonyk 4y ago
> But even worse, we're talking about many of people who are still awaiting trial-- presumably they are innocent at a greater rate than those convicted. "Awaiting trial" or even "Awaiting details of the charges to be hammered out" seem to be depressingly time unrestricted. I sat in on some of the hearings, and there was a lot of "Well, we're not ready, can we push this out for 2 weeks?" sort of scheduling going on. The person I'm familiar with this from basically spent 2 months in jail (not prison, apparently the difference is that prison is nicer, jail is really just a holding tank) on false charges that were then dropped as they were "literally impossible." He wasn't in the state when the claimed events happened.
- kingkawn 4y ago
  I participated in the exoneration effort for a kid who was arrested at 15 and didn’t even go to trial at all until age 19. At the trial the judge denied him the right to call expert witnesses that led to a successful appeal, and then finally after 8 years of his prime youth lost to incarceration the charges were all dropped.
- aqme28 4y ago
  Kalief Browder. Was awaiting trial at Rikers for years before charges were eventually dropped. In total he spent over two years in solitary confinement while never being tried for the petty robbery he was falsely accused of. Killed himself when he got out.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    >Killed himself when he got out. Hopefully somewhere and in a manner inconvenient for the responsible parties...
    - aqme28 4y ago
      > People tell me because I have this case against the city I'm all right. But I'm not all right. I'm messed up. I know that I might see some money from this case, but that's not going to help me mentally. I'm mentally scarred right now. That's how I feel. [There] are certain things that changed about me[,] and they might not [change] back. ... Before I went to jail, I didn't know about a lot of stuff, and, now that I'm aware, I'm paranoid. I feel like I was robbed of my happiness.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  Some countries like El Salvador require court dates and evidence of a crime to be submitted within a fixed period of time (2-4 weeks?), or a suspect has to be released. Perhaps this kind of system will help US courts with their priorities.
- onetokeoverthe 4y ago
  [dead]
weaksauce 4y ago
I just read about a guy that was jailed for 30 years with a sentence of 400+ years because the 800 years that the prosecutors wanted were too harsh so the judge decided to make the sentence 400ish years to be "fair". the crime this innocent man did that put him in jail for 30 years before being released was driving a getaway car while two other men robbed someone at gunpoint. nobody died to my knowledge. he couldn't give up the information because he was innocent so the prosecutors asked for that because he wasn't telling them what he couldn't know. crazy travesty of justice there. I'm sure there are tons more like this.
- Tostino 4y ago
  Good ole' Florida. It's not the first and won't be the last miscarriage of justice this state carries out.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Finally think of the large number of people imprisoned for violation of laws which ultimately don't matter, like all the people in prison for lower level drug related offenses. One of my favorite authors, Peter McWilliams, died while facing federal charges. I spoke to his mother once and she said that during this time they denied him access to vital medication, and she believes this led to his death. His crime was providing marijuana to cancer patients, something which had been legalized in CA at the time! https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/26/us/peter-mcwilliams-dies-at-50-an-author-of-self-help-books.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/26/us/peter-mcwilliams-dies-...
tyingq 4y ago
There's probably also a fair amount of "guilty of a lesser crime, but pressured by the plea bargain system to plea to a greater crime". And, of course, innocent or not, there's merit in the argument of whether they should be able to receive mail, have actual physical books in their possession, and so on.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  > There's probably also a fair amount of "guilty of a lesser crime, but pressured by the plea bargain system to plea to a greater crime". "You're a hick and this is Berkley California. Are you stupid? Take the deal. It doesn't matter that your offense is technically the lesser one and not the one they're charging you with. A jury trial would not go well for you here." -their lawyer, probably (and they're not wrong)
JohnFen 4y ago
Does their estimate include the innocent people who plead guilty because of plea bargaining?
rented_mule 4y ago
> The Innocence Project estimates 2-10% of convictions are wrongful This is exactly why I find the death penalty unconscionable. 1,567 people have been executed in the US since the 1970s (https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview). How many of them were wrongfully convicted? If someone is wrongfully imprisoned, at least we can let them out when they are exonerated - damaged, but with a chance to rejoin society. That's not the case with the death penalty. Without a perfect justice system, which is unattainable, the death penalty will take the lives of innocent people.

by mlyle 4y ago

Syonyk 4y ago

> But even worse, we're talking about many of people who are still awaiting trial-- presumably they are innocent at a greater rate than those convicted. "Awaiting trial" or even "Awaiting details of the charges to be hammered out" seem to be depressingly time unrestricted. I sat in on some of the hearings, and there was a lot of "Well, we're not ready, can we push this out for 2 weeks?" sort of scheduling going on. The person I'm familiar with this from basically spent 2 months in jail (not prison, apparently the difference is that prison is nicer, jail is really just a holding tank) on false charges that were then dropped as they were "literally impossible." He wasn't in the state when the claimed events happened.

kingkawn 4y ago
I participated in the exoneration effort for a kid who was arrested at 15 and didn’t even go to trial at all until age 19. At the trial the judge denied him the right to call expert witnesses that led to a successful appeal, and then finally after 8 years of his prime youth lost to incarceration the charges were all dropped.
aqme28 4y ago
Kalief Browder. Was awaiting trial at Rikers for years before charges were eventually dropped. In total he spent over two years in solitary confinement while never being tried for the petty robbery he was falsely accused of. Killed himself when he got out.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >Killed himself when he got out. Hopefully somewhere and in a manner inconvenient for the responsible parties...
  - aqme28 4y ago
    > People tell me because I have this case against the city I'm all right. But I'm not all right. I'm messed up. I know that I might see some money from this case, but that's not going to help me mentally. I'm mentally scarred right now. That's how I feel. [There] are certain things that changed about me[,] and they might not [change] back. ... Before I went to jail, I didn't know about a lot of stuff, and, now that I'm aware, I'm paranoid. I feel like I was robbed of my happiness.
ashwagary 4y ago
Some countries like El Salvador require court dates and evidence of a crime to be submitted within a fixed period of time (2-4 weeks?), or a suspect has to be released. Perhaps this kind of system will help US courts with their priorities.
onetokeoverthe 4y ago
[dead]

weaksauce 4y ago

I just read about a guy that was jailed for 30 years with a sentence of 400+ years because the 800 years that the prosecutors wanted were too harsh so the judge decided to make the sentence 400ish years to be "fair". the crime this innocent man did that put him in jail for 30 years before being released was driving a getaway car while two other men robbed someone at gunpoint. nobody died to my knowledge. he couldn't give up the information because he was innocent so the prosecutors asked for that because he wasn't telling them what he couldn't know. crazy travesty of justice there. I'm sure there are tons more like this.

Tostino 4y ago
Good ole' Florida. It's not the first and won't be the last miscarriage of justice this state carries out.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

Finally think of the large number of people imprisoned for violation of laws which ultimately don't matter, like all the people in prison for lower level drug related offenses. One of my favorite authors, Peter McWilliams, died while facing federal charges. I spoke to his mother once and she said that during this time they denied him access to vital medication, and she believes this led to his death. His crime was providing marijuana to cancer patients, something which had been legalized in CA at the time! https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/26/us/peter-mcwilliams-dies-at-50-an-author-of-self-help-books.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/26/us/peter-mcwilliams-dies-...

tyingq 4y ago

There's probably also a fair amount of "guilty of a lesser crime, but pressured by the plea bargain system to plea to a greater crime". And, of course, innocent or not, there's merit in the argument of whether they should be able to receive mail, have actual physical books in their possession, and so on.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
> There's probably also a fair amount of "guilty of a lesser crime, but pressured by the plea bargain system to plea to a greater crime". "You're a hick and this is Berkley California. Are you stupid? Take the deal. It doesn't matter that your offense is technically the lesser one and not the one they're charging you with. A jury trial would not go well for you here." -their lawyer, probably (and they're not wrong)

JohnFen 4y ago

Does their estimate include the innocent people who plead guilty because of plea bargaining?

rented_mule 4y ago

> The Innocence Project estimates 2-10% of convictions are wrongful This is exactly why I find the death penalty unconscionable. 1,567 people have been executed in the US since the 1970s (https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview). How many of them were wrongfully convicted? If someone is wrongfully imprisoned, at least we can let them out when they are exonerated - damaged, but with a chance to rejoin society. That's not the case with the death penalty. Without a perfect justice system, which is unattainable, the death penalty will take the lives of innocent people.