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Good. I'll have to send them a check and mention it's to support this lawsuit. //EDIT: Printed, signed, and mailed. I wonder what junkmail I'll get as a resul

by Syonyk 4y ago

Good. I'll have to send them a check and mention it's to support this lawsuit. //EDIT: Printed, signed, and mailed. I wonder what junkmail I'll get as a result of this donation... I've had the recent displeasure of seeing the jail system far more up close than I'd prefer (from the outside, someone lied and someone I know well ended up in jail for a few months, left with all charges dropped). It's an absolutely vile system, and letters were one of the very few ways one could actually have long form conversations without paying through the nose. Every aspect of the system is designed to extract money from those outside. You want to send messages? Great, install this app, add money (of course, a bunch of what you put in goes to mandatory fees for the privilege of putting money in), and then it ends up with pay-per-message with character limits (remember $0.25/text?), via an app that is... very permissions-grabby. Should you want to send money through the fee system for them to buy things at the internal store, you pay your fees, and then can either pay online via a "We need to know everything about you" app, or at an in person kiosk, which tries to collect all the same information, including a photo of you, your driver's license, and whatever else they can grab. Should you want to set up a video chat, you have to agree to a EULA that, among other things, includes "We will voiceprint anyone on the call and share that with law enforcement, and we will try to biometrically identify your facial features and do the same." And it's $7+ for 30 minutes. Of course, it's all logged and analyzed. I understand the need to keep communications somewhat monitored, but it feels far more like a blatant cash grab than anything else, which, given for-profit prisons, it almost certainly is. So, of course, the one thing that bypassed this (letters were opened, read, anything useful like tape on them was removed, etc) has to go away. Because how dare someone be able to actually interact with people outside. If they do that, why, they might not come right back in on release! And that would be Bad for Profits. Cram 80 people in a room built for 20? That's fine. Let them actually read letters? Can't have that! My opinion of the prison system was fairly low to start with, and it rather exceeded my expectations for just how utterly evil the whole thing is, through and through.

at_a_remove 4y ago
I'm curious about the lying: were charges filed against the liar? What was the lie? Did the liar have to pay the costs incurred?
- Syonyk 4y ago
  I'm not certain what legal consequences she may face as a result - I also slightly don't care, as it's far enough outside the bounds of that which I can control that I don't have reason to pay close attention to it. > were charges filed against the liar? I don't know. > What was the lie? Particular claims made about events and the timing of said events were simply wrong, rather conveniently so. The defense eventually was able to point out the accused was literally living across the country, with solid evidence thereof, at the time of the claimed events. > Did the liar have to pay the costs incurred? I don't think said person has any resources to pay. But the accused didn't exactly have much to their name either. It was a mess all around.
drew55555 4y ago
Recently went through the same thing. The person was moved twice so all the money on the app was lost since it was a different system at a different prison. Then at the last place, they changed vendors and the money on the app was lost again. I could've gotten it back, but I would've had to jump through a bunch of hoops and made a bunch of calls so I didn't worry about it which I'm sure is what they were hoping for by making it such an ordeal in the first place.
- Syonyk 4y ago
  My wife is a very calm, patient person. One of very few times I've seen her genuinely pissed off was after attempting to deal with some of the tech support for this system, because money ended up in the "wrong account" (via all the dark patterns you can imagine for the methods of donating), and the only way to move it was more or less for her to provide DNA samples to the prison (despite having nothing to do with anything) - it was that much information that they wanted to "maybe be able to help." The system is designed to extract money at all costs, and they seem very, very good at doing so, via hook or by crook.
JohnFen 4y ago
> Printed, signed, and mailed. I wonder what junkmail I'll get as a result of this donation. I've been regularly donating to the EFF for years, and one of the things I love about them is that I've never received junk mail as a result (that I know of). They send out periodic newsletter-type email, but unsubscribing from them is easy and actually works.
- Syonyk 4y ago
  That would be nice... Most groups, if you send money to support them, seem to then turn around and sell your info to every other group on the planet that might be related, on the "We got a live one!" list or something. It's impressive to watch, but it's also kept me from donating to certain groups, because it's such a royal pain to get off these lists. It typically takes 3-4 "Please take me off your list!" requests to get anywhere to listen, and a few groups have ignored me so long that I've resorted to Sharpie obscenities scrawled on their return mail to get my point across. Some don't even listen then. But I could probably heat my house on the amount of "THIS OUTRAGE IS HAPPENING AND HERE IS A LOT OF... (over, please) INFORMATION ABOUT WHY YOU SHOULD BE UPSET AND... (next page please) WILL YOU DONATE????????" junk I get. I have a standing policy of not giving anything to groups that insult me by putting "directions of how to read a multi-page letter" at the bottom, though. It's a thing on almost everything I receive.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Yes, which is why I don't give money to organizations outside of a few exceptions. EFF is one of those exceptions.
    - no-s 4y ago
      > EFF is one of those exceptions. For me too. Though they test my patience regularly with leftist shibboleths. I’m pretty arch-conservative too, but we’re all in this together…my zeal knows no limits when it comes to defending against overbearing government. In my mind it doesn’t matter if they’re innocent or guilty. If the government wants the privilege of treating people as guilty before due process then the legitimacy of government is automatically in disrepute. I’d rather let all the prisoners go free and let vigilante justice prevail than put up with this.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
[dead]
rtkwe 4y ago
Even better the calls from prison can often get instamarked as spam by Google with little way to know they're potentially being silently dropped if you want an ounce of quiet from your cell phone. Recently saw a video from a guy who had a friend get incarcerated and they had a hell of a time getting calls through because of spam blocking.
DubiousPusher 4y ago
If Americans had to spend one night in some of their jails they would be shocked at the inhumanity of them. American jails such as King County Jail in Seattle and Rikers are some of the worst places to be held in the post-industrial world. Prison is in fact preferable because states are much more compotent than counties at managing these kinds of facilities. If you are ever facing time, hope for a year and a day because usually that is the determinant if you will serve in jail or prison. You want prison. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/nyregion/rikers-detainees-correction-officers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/nyregion/rikers-detainees...
- Wingman4l7 4y ago
  > King County Jail in Seattle What's notably bad about this one?
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    “Over the last year, people in the downtown jail have reported spending long hours in isolation — 23 hours a day — for multiple days on end. Lawyers have complained to reporters and county officials that their clients aren’t getting regular changes of clothes, have had their medical appointments canceled and miss court dates because of a lack of adequate staffing, which extends their jail stays.” https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/aclu-sues-king-county-over-seattle-jail-conditions/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/aclu-sues-king-cou...
public_defender 4y ago
I got called up to handle a case in court and had to delete my draft comment. I'm glad I did. I think that this type of first-person experience is often lacking in these discussions. The true issue is that legacy technology like telephone and US mail are being removed in favor of the surveillance-capitalist dystopia described here. Yes, they read your mail and record your phonecalls, but the new generation of rights abuse is indescribably worse. Sibling comments mention that the EFF may not be the proper organization for this, but I think that it's valuable to have them in the conversation since they are experts in the policy implications, alternatives, and real impact of this type of user-hostile technology.

by Syonyk 4y ago

at_a_remove 4y ago

I'm curious about the lying: were charges filed against the liar? What was the lie? Did the liar have to pay the costs incurred?

Syonyk 4y ago
I'm not certain what legal consequences she may face as a result - I also slightly don't care, as it's far enough outside the bounds of that which I can control that I don't have reason to pay close attention to it. > were charges filed against the liar? I don't know. > What was the lie? Particular claims made about events and the timing of said events were simply wrong, rather conveniently so. The defense eventually was able to point out the accused was literally living across the country, with solid evidence thereof, at the time of the claimed events. > Did the liar have to pay the costs incurred? I don't think said person has any resources to pay. But the accused didn't exactly have much to their name either. It was a mess all around.

drew55555 4y ago

Recently went through the same thing. The person was moved twice so all the money on the app was lost since it was a different system at a different prison. Then at the last place, they changed vendors and the money on the app was lost again. I could've gotten it back, but I would've had to jump through a bunch of hoops and made a bunch of calls so I didn't worry about it which I'm sure is what they were hoping for by making it such an ordeal in the first place.

Syonyk 4y ago
My wife is a very calm, patient person. One of very few times I've seen her genuinely pissed off was after attempting to deal with some of the tech support for this system, because money ended up in the "wrong account" (via all the dark patterns you can imagine for the methods of donating), and the only way to move it was more or less for her to provide DNA samples to the prison (despite having nothing to do with anything) - it was that much information that they wanted to "maybe be able to help." The system is designed to extract money at all costs, and they seem very, very good at doing so, via hook or by crook.

JohnFen 4y ago

> Printed, signed, and mailed. I wonder what junkmail I'll get as a result of this donation. I've been regularly donating to the EFF for years, and one of the things I love about them is that I've never received junk mail as a result (that I know of). They send out periodic newsletter-type email, but unsubscribing from them is easy and actually works.

Syonyk 4y ago
That would be nice... Most groups, if you send money to support them, seem to then turn around and sell your info to every other group on the planet that might be related, on the "We got a live one!" list or something. It's impressive to watch, but it's also kept me from donating to certain groups, because it's such a royal pain to get off these lists. It typically takes 3-4 "Please take me off your list!" requests to get anywhere to listen, and a few groups have ignored me so long that I've resorted to Sharpie obscenities scrawled on their return mail to get my point across. Some don't even listen then. But I could probably heat my house on the amount of "THIS OUTRAGE IS HAPPENING AND HERE IS A LOT OF... (over, please) INFORMATION ABOUT WHY YOU SHOULD BE UPSET AND... (next page please) WILL YOU DONATE????????" junk I get. I have a standing policy of not giving anything to groups that insult me by putting "directions of how to read a multi-page letter" at the bottom, though. It's a thing on almost everything I receive.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Yes, which is why I don't give money to organizations outside of a few exceptions. EFF is one of those exceptions.
  - no-s 4y ago
    > EFF is one of those exceptions. For me too. Though they test my patience regularly with leftist shibboleths. I’m pretty arch-conservative too, but we’re all in this together…my zeal knows no limits when it comes to defending against overbearing government. In my mind it doesn’t matter if they’re innocent or guilty. If the government wants the privilege of treating people as guilty before due process then the legitimacy of government is automatically in disrepute. I’d rather let all the prisoners go free and let vigilante justice prevail than put up with this.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

[dead]

rtkwe 4y ago

Even better the calls from prison can often get instamarked as spam by Google with little way to know they're potentially being silently dropped if you want an ounce of quiet from your cell phone. Recently saw a video from a guy who had a friend get incarcerated and they had a hell of a time getting calls through because of spam blocking.

DubiousPusher 4y ago

If Americans had to spend one night in some of their jails they would be shocked at the inhumanity of them. American jails such as King County Jail in Seattle and Rikers are some of the worst places to be held in the post-industrial world. Prison is in fact preferable because states are much more compotent than counties at managing these kinds of facilities. If you are ever facing time, hope for a year and a day because usually that is the determinant if you will serve in jail or prison. You want prison. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/nyregion/rikers-detainees-correction-officers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/nyregion/rikers-detainees...

Wingman4l7 4y ago
> King County Jail in Seattle What's notably bad about this one?
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  “Over the last year, people in the downtown jail have reported spending long hours in isolation — 23 hours a day — for multiple days on end. Lawyers have complained to reporters and county officials that their clients aren’t getting regular changes of clothes, have had their medical appointments canceled and miss court dates because of a lack of adequate staffing, which extends their jail stays.” https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/aclu-sues-king-county-over-seattle-jail-conditions/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/aclu-sues-king-cou...

public_defender 4y ago

I got called up to handle a case in court and had to delete my draft comment. I'm glad I did. I think that this type of first-person experience is often lacking in these discussions. The true issue is that legacy technology like telephone and US mail are being removed in favor of the surveillance-capitalist dystopia described here. Yes, they read your mail and record your phonecalls, but the new generation of rights abuse is indescribably worse. Sibling comments mention that the EFF may not be the proper organization for this, but I think that it's valuable to have them in the conversation since they are experts in the policy implications, alternatives, and real impact of this type of user-hostile technology.