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> software engineers (or working in the field), have the power to not implement these features when our employer asks us to do it. Realize that you're statment

> software engineers (or working in the field), have the power to not implement these features when our employer asks us to do it. Realize that you're statment is a euphemism. What you really mean is we have the choice between implementing a dark pattern or finding another job and letting someone else implement it. Stated this way it's a lot easier to understand people's behavior.

deleted 4y ago
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JamesonNetworks 4y ago
GPT-4 def wont care
Errsher 4y ago
Ah yes, the banality of evil. s/implementing a dark pattern/performing any immoral or unethical act/g
- _yrnr 4y ago
  In capitalism, you're always free to starve. In Nazi Germany, you're always free to be executed or imprisoned for refusing orders.
mrguyorama 4y ago
That has always been a massive copout.
- grog454 4y ago
  What makes it a copout? I've had friends choose the resign option. I've been fortunate enough that my resignations didn't involve ultimatums.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Was it effective -> did whatever they were resigning in protest of, get removed?
Eduard 4y ago
> What you really mean is we have the choice between implementing a dark pattern or finding another job and letting someone else implement it. You incorrectly reduced the available options. Here are a couple more options: - convince your peers and supervisors why using dark patterns is trash - just don't implement dark patterns and rather focus on useful features and bugfixes - be loud about your distain of such request for dark pattern implementation and tweet, blog, write about it. - ...
- tagyro 4y ago
  These are all valid options and one could (and should) attempt them before resigning. (Though, realistically speaking, either one will probably get you fired, sooner or later.)
alden5 4y ago
Here's a software engineer at twitter who was asked to implement granular per user location tracking and the feature got scrapped because the entire team just refused to implement it https://mobile.twitter.com/stevekrenzel/status/1589700721121058817 https://mobile.twitter.com/stevekrenzel/status/1589700721121...
ChickenNugger 4y ago
Maybe what we need are unions. I realize it's hard to do with H1Bs, contractors, remote work, and offshoring. But maybe we should try anyway? One could be tempted to think we're overpaid or have it too good as is, but we're basically lightning wizards making rocks think for us from sometimes thousands of miles away from where we physically are. When put that way it doesn't seem so farfetched to pay us a lot of money for our works.

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JamesonNetworks 4y ago

GPT-4 def wont care

Errsher 4y ago

Ah yes, the banality of evil. s/implementing a dark pattern/performing any immoral or unethical act/g

_yrnr 4y ago
In capitalism, you're always free to starve. In Nazi Germany, you're always free to be executed or imprisoned for refusing orders.

mrguyorama 4y ago

That has always been a massive copout.

grog454 4y ago
What makes it a copout? I've had friends choose the resign option. I've been fortunate enough that my resignations didn't involve ultimatums.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Was it effective -> did whatever they were resigning in protest of, get removed?

Eduard 4y ago

> What you really mean is we have the choice between implementing a dark pattern or finding another job and letting someone else implement it. You incorrectly reduced the available options. Here are a couple more options: - convince your peers and supervisors why using dark patterns is trash - just don't implement dark patterns and rather focus on useful features and bugfixes - be loud about your distain of such request for dark pattern implementation and tweet, blog, write about it. - ...

tagyro 4y ago
These are all valid options and one could (and should) attempt them before resigning. (Though, realistically speaking, either one will probably get you fired, sooner or later.)

alden5 4y ago

Here's a software engineer at twitter who was asked to implement granular per user location tracking and the feature got scrapped because the entire team just refused to implement it https://mobile.twitter.com/stevekrenzel/status/1589700721121058817 https://mobile.twitter.com/stevekrenzel/status/1589700721121...

ChickenNugger 4y ago

Maybe what we need are unions. I realize it's hard to do with H1Bs, contractors, remote work, and offshoring. But maybe we should try anyway? One could be tempted to think we're overpaid or have it too good as is, but we're basically lightning wizards making rocks think for us from sometimes thousands of miles away from where we physically are. When put that way it doesn't seem so farfetched to pay us a lot of money for our works.