4 ms·

> music I've purchased They really ought to stop using "buy"/"purchase" metaphorically to mean something more like "one time fee for an indefinite lease that e

> music I've purchased They really ought to stop using "buy"/"purchase" metaphorically to mean something more like "one time fee for an indefinite lease that ends upon account termination." If they simply used a word better suited to the reality of the situation, then it wouldn't be a surprise that the account (which is a privilege, not a right) is a dependency of using what you paid for. Maybe something like "micro-upgrade [my account]." Obviously eliminating that dependency is even better, but baby steps.

sirmarksalot 4y ago
The bigger issue is that because of the market power of these digital storefronts, it doesn't matter what your mental model of the transaction is, you don't have a choice in the matter. Yes, online stores with better terms exist, but they don't tend to have the games that you'd want to buy. I always get a warm feeling when a game I'm interested in has an itch.io link, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking it'll ever replace Steam, even if Steam had to stop calling itself a store. Steam is just far too established, and the network effect is just way too strong.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  I think a lot of platforms would change the terms of their digital products if they could not use the term "Buy" otherwise.
yatac42 4y ago
> > music I've purchased > They really ought to stop using "buy"/"purchase" metaphorically to mean something more like "one time fee for an indefinite lease that ends upon account termination." That doesn't really apply to buying music though, does it? If Amazon banned my account, that wouldn't prevent me from listening to the MP3s I've bought from them. It would only prevent me from re-downloading them from their servers if I somehow lost all of my local copies. But if I buy a CD from a physical store, they also don't give a me another copy for free if I lose it (even without account termination entering into it), so I'm not really any worse off with the digital download.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > But if I buy a CD from a physical store ... This is literally the nature of physical vs digital goods. We can, and should, do better for customers than the current systems from Steam and Amazon (among others) allow.
  - yatac42 4y ago
    Which current systems? For games on Steam and movies basically anywhere, the current system is that after I buy the game/movie, I can watch/play it for as long as I have access to the account. If I lose the account or the service shuts down, I'm fucked. That sucks. For games on GOG or MP3s basically anywhere, the current system is that I buy it and then I can play the game/music forever as long as I don't lose the downloaded files. If I do lose the files, I can still redownload them as long as the service is still operating and I still have access to the account. The second system seems fine to me.
    - justinclift 4y ago
      Good point, I've specifically mentioned Steam and Amazon.
      - yatac42 4y ago
        Yes and buying music on Amazon (which is what the comment I originally responded to was about), you get system number 2, i.e. a DRM-free MP3 download. Buying movies on Amazon is a different matter entirely, but the comment and my reply were specifically about music.
        justinclift 4y ago
        Nah. Being able to download a digital purchase at one point, but potentially being unable to download it again later on is a crap system.
    - tmtvl 4y ago
mahathu 4y ago
Didn't they use to let users download mp3s when they bought an album? Did that change?
- CobrastanJorji 4y ago
  Ah, you're behind the times. You may be remembering 2008 when Amazon had those big "DRM Free" messages and t-shirts and talked a lot about how music wanted to be free. It was a big part of their sales pitch. That faded away, and then some music started using DRM. However, if you purchase a music song or album, you can still mostly download MP3s, as far as I know. On the other hand, if you use Amazon Unlimited or Amazon Music Prime, you cannot download music as MP3s. You need to use a player that supports their DRM.
  - hug 4y ago
    > On the other hand, if you use Amazon Unlimited or Amazon Music Prime, you cannot download music as MP3s. You need to use a player that supports their DRM. This seems entirely reasonable: No one thinks that by subscribing to Unlimited that they're actually purchasing a copy of every single song forever. It's very much known that it's a subscription.
- lmm 4y ago
  That's still there although they emphasise it less and less (they want you on the monthly "unlimited" subscription instead). But only for music; their video offering is locked streams only, for example.
- queer_will 4y ago
  Does anybody know how to do this? I'm trying to download some albums I bought back in 2010, but I can't see anywhere to download the MP3s. It will only let me play it through the web player.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> the account (which is a privilege, not a right) is a dependency of using what you paid for The moment you made the account a pre-requisite to use something I have already paid for - whether it's software, music, or an internet connected lightbult, is the moment the account stopped being a privilidge. Do you see where it is headed next? We have internet connected cars and door locks. There are subscribtions for a butt-heater in a car. Withing the next 5 years someone will freeze to death because a company has pulled or made a mess of their account. There is no other line of business where you can unilaterally revoke a service that the customer has already paid for. Where continous service requires some conditions or behaviour, this is spelled out in a contract - these companies change their terms on a whim.

sirmarksalot 4y ago

The bigger issue is that because of the market power of these digital storefronts, it doesn't matter what your mental model of the transaction is, you don't have a choice in the matter. Yes, online stores with better terms exist, but they don't tend to have the games that you'd want to buy. I always get a warm feeling when a game I'm interested in has an itch.io link, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking it'll ever replace Steam, even if Steam had to stop calling itself a store. Steam is just far too established, and the network effect is just way too strong.

cwkoss 4y ago
I think a lot of platforms would change the terms of their digital products if they could not use the term "Buy" otherwise.

yatac42 4y ago

> > music I've purchased > They really ought to stop using "buy"/"purchase" metaphorically to mean something more like "one time fee for an indefinite lease that ends upon account termination." That doesn't really apply to buying music though, does it? If Amazon banned my account, that wouldn't prevent me from listening to the MP3s I've bought from them. It would only prevent me from re-downloading them from their servers if I somehow lost all of my local copies. But if I buy a CD from a physical store, they also don't give a me another copy for free if I lose it (even without account termination entering into it), so I'm not really any worse off with the digital download.

justinclift 4y ago
> But if I buy a CD from a physical store ... This is literally the nature of physical vs digital goods. We can, and should, do better for customers than the current systems from Steam and Amazon (among others) allow.
- yatac42 4y ago
  Which current systems? For games on Steam and movies basically anywhere, the current system is that after I buy the game/movie, I can watch/play it for as long as I have access to the account. If I lose the account or the service shuts down, I'm fucked. That sucks. For games on GOG or MP3s basically anywhere, the current system is that I buy it and then I can play the game/music forever as long as I don't lose the downloaded files. If I do lose the files, I can still redownload them as long as the service is still operating and I still have access to the account. The second system seems fine to me.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    Good point, I've specifically mentioned Steam and Amazon.
    - yatac42 4y ago
      Yes and buying music on Amazon (which is what the comment I originally responded to was about), you get system number 2, i.e. a DRM-free MP3 download. Buying movies on Amazon is a different matter entirely, but the comment and my reply were specifically about music.
      - justinclift 4y ago
        Nah. Being able to download a digital purchase at one point, but potentially being unable to download it again later on is a crap system.
  - tmtvl 4y ago

mahathu 4y ago

Didn't they use to let users download mp3s when they bought an album? Did that change?

CobrastanJorji 4y ago
Ah, you're behind the times. You may be remembering 2008 when Amazon had those big "DRM Free" messages and t-shirts and talked a lot about how music wanted to be free. It was a big part of their sales pitch. That faded away, and then some music started using DRM. However, if you purchase a music song or album, you can still mostly download MP3s, as far as I know. On the other hand, if you use Amazon Unlimited or Amazon Music Prime, you cannot download music as MP3s. You need to use a player that supports their DRM.
- hug 4y ago
  > On the other hand, if you use Amazon Unlimited or Amazon Music Prime, you cannot download music as MP3s. You need to use a player that supports their DRM. This seems entirely reasonable: No one thinks that by subscribing to Unlimited that they're actually purchasing a copy of every single song forever. It's very much known that it's a subscription.
lmm 4y ago
That's still there although they emphasise it less and less (they want you on the monthly "unlimited" subscription instead). But only for music; their video offering is locked streams only, for example.
queer_will 4y ago
Does anybody know how to do this? I'm trying to download some albums I bought back in 2010, but I can't see anywhere to download the MP3s. It will only let me play it through the web player.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> the account (which is a privilege, not a right) is a dependency of using what you paid for The moment you made the account a pre-requisite to use something I have already paid for - whether it's software, music, or an internet connected lightbult, is the moment the account stopped being a privilidge. Do you see where it is headed next? We have internet connected cars and door locks. There are subscribtions for a butt-heater in a car. Withing the next 5 years someone will freeze to death because a company has pulled or made a mess of their account. There is no other line of business where you can unilaterally revoke a service that the customer has already paid for. Where continous service requires some conditions or behaviour, this is spelled out in a contract - these companies change their terms on a whim.