3 ms·

If fairness is impossible then it has to be fine to do (minimally, at least) unfair things because there is no other option.

colordrops 4y ago
Another possibility is that the poor definition of what is fair is used in some contexts.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Again, this is a problem with global versus local context. Just a made up scenario. You have 2 gallons of water and two people. You give each one gallon of water, which should be enough to survive. One lives and one dies. Why? The water was split fairly. For example one could live in the hot desert in which more water is required, and the other lives in a temperate environment where either less water is required, or water can be gathered from this environment. But just think how messy it is to compute fairness in a situation like this. Suddenly it's looking like a NP style problem. People on the other hand typically want cheap and easy solutions.
Veen 4y ago
And if the people who end up on the wrong end of those decisions push back, what are you going to do? Shrug, cite the "impossibility of fairness", and tell them to suck it up? That's a short road to a very unpleasant backlash. Fairness is deeply important to most human beings.
- dllthomas 4y ago
  How does that make the impossible possible? If fairness is impossible we have to somehow deal with some amount of unfairness. That does not depend on having a good proposal for dealing with unfairness.
  - Veen 4y ago
    The people who have been fucked over will eventually take what they think should be theirs by whatever means they think appropriate. That's how you end up with Trump and even worse.
    - dllthomas 4y ago
      Sure. Grant that that's terrible. Or substitute even worse outcomes. That doesn't mean we can require fairness if fairness is impossible. I think people are assuming I'm making a broader case than I've meant to...
- Nasrudith 4y ago
  Buy a gun or vehicle? Because if you are at the mercy of insane, irrational, and potentially violent actors there is nothing other than force which can guarantee safety. They will call it unfair that their victim fought back and that three or more on one went to the one. Because fairness is a solipsistic, narcissistic standard that cannot be objectively defined. It is more a rhetorical device than anything logic related as you can argue any standard as fair or unfair.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

colordrops 4y ago

Another possibility is that the poor definition of what is fair is used in some contexts.

pixl97 4y ago
Again, this is a problem with global versus local context. Just a made up scenario. You have 2 gallons of water and two people. You give each one gallon of water, which should be enough to survive. One lives and one dies. Why? The water was split fairly. For example one could live in the hot desert in which more water is required, and the other lives in a temperate environment where either less water is required, or water can be gathered from this environment. But just think how messy it is to compute fairness in a situation like this. Suddenly it's looking like a NP style problem. People on the other hand typically want cheap and easy solutions.

Veen 4y ago

And if the people who end up on the wrong end of those decisions push back, what are you going to do? Shrug, cite the "impossibility of fairness", and tell them to suck it up? That's a short road to a very unpleasant backlash. Fairness is deeply important to most human beings.

dllthomas 4y ago
How does that make the impossible possible? If fairness is impossible we have to somehow deal with some amount of unfairness. That does not depend on having a good proposal for dealing with unfairness.
- Veen 4y ago
  The people who have been fucked over will eventually take what they think should be theirs by whatever means they think appropriate. That's how you end up with Trump and even worse.
  - dllthomas 4y ago
    Sure. Grant that that's terrible. Or substitute even worse outcomes. That doesn't mean we can require fairness if fairness is impossible. I think people are assuming I'm making a broader case than I've meant to...
Nasrudith 4y ago
Buy a gun or vehicle? Because if you are at the mercy of insane, irrational, and potentially violent actors there is nothing other than force which can guarantee safety. They will call it unfair that their victim fought back and that three or more on one went to the one. Because fairness is a solipsistic, narcissistic standard that cannot be objectively defined. It is more a rhetorical device than anything logic related as you can argue any standard as fair or unfair.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]