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Yep. I went and quickly looked them up on Wikipedia. They have a list of controversies so long that the outline of the "controversies" subheading won't even fit

Yep. I went and quickly looked them up on Wikipedia. They have a list of controversies so long that the outline of the "controversies" subheading won't even fit on my phone screen. Drug cartel money, strong ties to the Russian oligarchy, forex manipulation, corrupt dealings with African governments, destruction of records, tax fraud. The list is extensive to say the least.

thefounder 4y ago
>> Drug cartel money, strong ties to the Russian oligarchy, forex manipulation, corrupt dealings with African governments, destruction of records, tax fraud. Sounds like HSBC
- odiroot 4y ago
  And Deutsche Bank.
- samstave 4y ago
  Precisely why HSBC bought UK SVB They need to protect their laundering clients. HSBC is an extension of the UK laundering fraud arm of Yee Olde Kingdom. Expect much fuckery afoot.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    If anyone is interested in digging into this more, read up on the City of London. Not to be confused with London, the capital of England, the City of London is effectively a weird de facto tax haven city-state embedded in London. Edit: Somehow managed to write "nationstate" instead of "city-state"
curiousgal 4y ago
I am more than 100% confident that those controversies have nothing to do with the current mess. CS is failing not because it laundered cartel money, it is failing because it didn't manage risks properly, namely Archegos and Greensill. You guys make it sound like the universes punishes those who do bad things which is laughable.
- timmytokyo 4y ago
  It's not exactly surprising that a company known for its extensive dealings with corrupt actors is also bad at managing risk.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Yeah this makes sense. One of the cases where A causes both B and C. People willing to take part in criminal activities are almost definitionally less risk averse. You're risking fines, loss of reputation, prison, unemployability, destitution. Not then surprising that those same people would be more willing to take undue financial risk, all the while maybe closing an eye to some red flags.
  - riffraff 4y ago
    > It's not exactly surprising that a company known for its extensive dealings with corrupt actors is also bad at managing risk. HSBC is just as evil, and is doing well enough that they just acquired the UK branch of SVB https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-vast-sums-of-dirty-money-after-paying-record-laundering-fine/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-...
    - HorizonXP 4y ago
      FTX bought Voyager when they went down. Acquisitions != health
      - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
        Its well known that acquisitions are a great way to hide fraud, too. Number of studies on that front. Another (usual) reason is when a company lacks clear avenues for growth so they are looking to buy some growtg
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  They're both on the list too, and it seems based on a cursory glance that shady dealings were involved in both cases. I was just confirming the notion that they're a very shady bank. I'm not qualified to say whether the shadyness is the primary cause of their downfall, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to me. And sure, anyone can reduce any view down to a laughable caricature. Good job, I guess.
saiya-jin 4y ago
As you write, you have no real clue about banking. Let me tell you, all that you wrote, and more, much more, can be said about every single big bank out there, anywhere. How do I know this - I work for one of those, not (and never) CS. Since I started ours is rather spot clean from what I can see (but IT is very far from those who make similar decisions), what I see is regulatory downfall from their fuckups 15-30 years ago. Some of it was outright amoral criminal behavior, but most was due to bad processes and way too much incompetence in ie KYC checks. Too much focus on current cash flow, way too few questions about where the money came from. That's thing of the past in regulated markets (but then you have the whole universe of tax havens, some also in US or conveniently around)
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Thanks for the inside perspective, very helpful. There's no doubt that corruption in banking was a complete free for all in the past during times of intense financial deregulation, and that regulated markets have improved their vigilance markedly since then. It makes sense that for banks such as yours, there might be a sort of echo of the past in scandals being outed presently. And a lot of those cases are more wilful ignorance and poor due diligence as you say Of course CS is in a tax haven, and their dirty laundry generally seems much fresher and much more deliberate than negligent. E.g attempting to help cover up assets of Russian oligarchs under sanctions after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And the Credit Suisse leaks last year revealed just how much dirty money flows through the bank still to this day.
simplotek 4y ago
> The list is extensive to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if the Swiss newfound love for a weirdly biased neutrality, which goes to the extent of destroying their own military gear instead of selling it to Ukraine, is rooted in appeasing certain Russians who stashed their fortunes in financial institutions such as Credit Suisse.
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  > destroying their own military gear instead of selling it to Ukraine What?
  - mocko 4y ago
    That sounded so nuts I had to look it up. Turns out they really are! https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/switzerland-to-destroy-anti-aircraft-missile-systems-that-could-be-used-in-ukraine_6019124_4.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/s...
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      Truly a perplexing country. It's kind of easy to be neutral when you're landlocked inside NATO, I guess. No reason to even join. Neutrality didn't quite work out that way for Norway in WW2... Great cheese down there though, gotta give them that.
      - TechBro8615 4y ago
        > It's kind of easy to be neutral when you're landlocked inside NATO I guess you think that NATO is why the Swiss people added a neutrality clause to the constitution of the Swiss Confederation during the Restoration in 1815?
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        Only in the bizarro world where I make laughably false statements so you can point it out to feel clever. No, the NATO part is only commenting on current events. The reason they weren't invaded during WW2 was mainly that they had a strong military in a very mountainous country with next to no strategic or material importance to Hitler. Just not worth the trouble. If Hitler saw a strategic reason to invade Switzerland he would have; he had no reservations about ignoring neutrality. I figured all this was obvious given knowledge about basic history and geography, and that it didn't need to be spelled out that I know NATO didn't exist during or before WW2
moffkalast 4y ago
People have been calling them "Credit Sus" which I think is quite warranted.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  The best quip I saw was some saying they'd changed their name from Credit Suisse to Debit Suisse.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    That is one wicked burn rate.
  - popcalc 4y ago
    https://shop.litquidity.co/products/mug-debit-suisse https://shop.litquidity.co/products/mug-debit-suisse My type of impulse buy
    - gonzo41 4y ago
      That's awesome merch. Kudos to that person.
rXoX 4y ago
[dead]
fnord77 4y ago
nobody does corruption like the swiss (IOC, FIFA, etc)
abc03 4y ago
Mmh, are you also describing the American goverment? Remember drug for guns?

thefounder 4y ago

>> Drug cartel money, strong ties to the Russian oligarchy, forex manipulation, corrupt dealings with African governments, destruction of records, tax fraud. Sounds like HSBC

odiroot 4y ago
And Deutsche Bank.
samstave 4y ago
Precisely why HSBC bought UK SVB They need to protect their laundering clients. HSBC is an extension of the UK laundering fraud arm of Yee Olde Kingdom. Expect much fuckery afoot.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  If anyone is interested in digging into this more, read up on the City of London. Not to be confused with London, the capital of England, the City of London is effectively a weird de facto tax haven city-state embedded in London. Edit: Somehow managed to write "nationstate" instead of "city-state"

curiousgal 4y ago

I am more than 100% confident that those controversies have nothing to do with the current mess. CS is failing not because it laundered cartel money, it is failing because it didn't manage risks properly, namely Archegos and Greensill. You guys make it sound like the universes punishes those who do bad things which is laughable.

timmytokyo 4y ago
It's not exactly surprising that a company known for its extensive dealings with corrupt actors is also bad at managing risk.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Yeah this makes sense. One of the cases where A causes both B and C. People willing to take part in criminal activities are almost definitionally less risk averse. You're risking fines, loss of reputation, prison, unemployability, destitution. Not then surprising that those same people would be more willing to take undue financial risk, all the while maybe closing an eye to some red flags.
- riffraff 4y ago
  > It's not exactly surprising that a company known for its extensive dealings with corrupt actors is also bad at managing risk. HSBC is just as evil, and is doing well enough that they just acquired the UK branch of SVB https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-vast-sums-of-dirty-money-after-paying-record-laundering-fine/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-...
  - HorizonXP 4y ago
    FTX bought Voyager when they went down. Acquisitions != health
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      Its well known that acquisitions are a great way to hide fraud, too. Number of studies on that front. Another (usual) reason is when a company lacks clear avenues for growth so they are looking to buy some growtg
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
They're both on the list too, and it seems based on a cursory glance that shady dealings were involved in both cases. I was just confirming the notion that they're a very shady bank. I'm not qualified to say whether the shadyness is the primary cause of their downfall, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to me. And sure, anyone can reduce any view down to a laughable caricature. Good job, I guess.

saiya-jin 4y ago

As you write, you have no real clue about banking. Let me tell you, all that you wrote, and more, much more, can be said about every single big bank out there, anywhere. How do I know this - I work for one of those, not (and never) CS. Since I started ours is rather spot clean from what I can see (but IT is very far from those who make similar decisions), what I see is regulatory downfall from their fuckups 15-30 years ago. Some of it was outright amoral criminal behavior, but most was due to bad processes and way too much incompetence in ie KYC checks. Too much focus on current cash flow, way too few questions about where the money came from. That's thing of the past in regulated markets (but then you have the whole universe of tax havens, some also in US or conveniently around)

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Thanks for the inside perspective, very helpful. There's no doubt that corruption in banking was a complete free for all in the past during times of intense financial deregulation, and that regulated markets have improved their vigilance markedly since then. It makes sense that for banks such as yours, there might be a sort of echo of the past in scandals being outed presently. And a lot of those cases are more wilful ignorance and poor due diligence as you say Of course CS is in a tax haven, and their dirty laundry generally seems much fresher and much more deliberate than negligent. E.g attempting to help cover up assets of Russian oligarchs under sanctions after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And the Credit Suisse leaks last year revealed just how much dirty money flows through the bank still to this day.

simplotek 4y ago

> The list is extensive to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if the Swiss newfound love for a weirdly biased neutrality, which goes to the extent of destroying their own military gear instead of selling it to Ukraine, is rooted in appeasing certain Russians who stashed their fortunes in financial institutions such as Credit Suisse.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
> destroying their own military gear instead of selling it to Ukraine What?
- mocko 4y ago
  That sounded so nuts I had to look it up. Turns out they really are! https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/switzerland-to-destroy-anti-aircraft-missile-systems-that-could-be-used-in-ukraine_6019124_4.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/s...
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Truly a perplexing country. It's kind of easy to be neutral when you're landlocked inside NATO, I guess. No reason to even join. Neutrality didn't quite work out that way for Norway in WW2... Great cheese down there though, gotta give them that.
    - TechBro8615 4y ago
      > It's kind of easy to be neutral when you're landlocked inside NATO I guess you think that NATO is why the Swiss people added a neutrality clause to the constitution of the Swiss Confederation during the Restoration in 1815?
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        Only in the bizarro world where I make laughably false statements so you can point it out to feel clever. No, the NATO part is only commenting on current events. The reason they weren't invaded during WW2 was mainly that they had a strong military in a very mountainous country with next to no strategic or material importance to Hitler. Just not worth the trouble. If Hitler saw a strategic reason to invade Switzerland he would have; he had no reservations about ignoring neutrality. I figured all this was obvious given knowledge about basic history and geography, and that it didn't need to be spelled out that I know NATO didn't exist during or before WW2

moffkalast 4y ago

People have been calling them "Credit Sus" which I think is quite warranted.

gonzo41 4y ago
The best quip I saw was some saying they'd changed their name from Credit Suisse to Debit Suisse.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  That is one wicked burn rate.
- popcalc 4y ago
  https://shop.litquidity.co/products/mug-debit-suisse https://shop.litquidity.co/products/mug-debit-suisse My type of impulse buy
  - gonzo41 4y ago
    That's awesome merch. Kudos to that person.

rXoX 4y ago

[dead]

fnord77 4y ago

nobody does corruption like the swiss (IOC, FIFA, etc)

abc03 4y ago

Mmh, are you also describing the American goverment? Remember drug for guns?