4 ms·

I assume you mean why not have road markings rather than the signage. Sometimes road markings disappear in rain and the bright lights reflecting off the road ca

I assume you mean why not have road markings rather than the signage. Sometimes road markings disappear in rain and the bright lights reflecting off the road can mess up the contrast. I had a hard time navigating Seattle due to the inability to see road markings, it seemed that everyone else knew where to go (and not go) from previous experience so I would follow the traffic. But sometimes there was no traffic either… EDIT: Not sure what I did to elicit so many downvotes on a personal anecdote. I was not advocating the exclusive use a PED XING sign just giving a situation where zebra crossing markings may be insufficient.

account42 4y ago
I have never seen PED XING used (don't live in the US) but from a quick image search it is used for both signage and road markings. In either both cases there are more intuitively understandable options - a literal (zebra) crossing drawn on the road or a sign of a crossing pedestrian. That this doesn't seem to be widely adopted accross the world and that searching returns many people asking WTF it means reinforces that idea.
- davchana 4y ago
  I too saw them ever in US only. Most of these have multiple set of signs. PED XING on Road as an early warning. A metal sign post on the side depicting a pedestrian. Then the actual White Lines, the crossing. Similar text examples on road are like STOP AHEAD, SCHOOL AREA, RIGHT ONLY, LEFT ONLY, FWY NNN etc.
  - TRiG_Ireland 4y ago
    The USA is weirdly fond of using words (or cryptic abbreviations of words) where other countries use icons. The Slate article "The Big Red Word vs. the Little Green Man" has more on this. (I'd link it, but Slate is down right now.) See also in transport timetables, where every other country in the world would use a 24-hour clock, the USA not only uses the 12-hour clock, but furthermore does an extra layer of abbreviation used only in the USA and nowhere else. I was in a New York airport staring at signs saying 9:06p and similar for several minutes before I even worked out they were supposed to be times. The US makes no accommodations for tourists even in major international transport hubs. Strange country.
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      The USA is weirdly fond of using words (or cryptic abbreviations of words) where other countries use icons It's not weird at all. The rules were created at a time when the United States was very monolingual. Europe made its rules around symbols because there are lots of people speaking lots of languages next to one another and crossing borders. Not weird at all. Just logic and history.
      - Someone 4y ago
        AFAIK, Europe uses symbols because you have to be able to detect them when you’re driving past at speed in all kinds of weather. That also is the reason why, even today, the train on traffic signs is a steam train; it makes it easier to distinguish it from a truck. I also would be curious when, if ever, the USA was “very monolingual”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4092008/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4092008/: “At the time of independence, non-English European immigrants made up one quarter of the population and in Pennsylvania two-fifths of the population spoke German. In addition, an unknown but presumably significant share of the new nation's inhabitants spoke an American Indian or African language, suggesting that perhaps a third or more of all Americans spoke a language other than English. With the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 (which doubled the size of the country), the Treaty of 1818 with Britain (which added the Oregon Country), the Adams-Onís Treaty of 1819 with Spain (which gave Florida to the U.S.), and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 (which acquired nearly half of Mexico), tens of thousands of French and Spanish speakers along with many more slaves and the diverse indigenous peoples of those vast territories were added to the linguistic mix.”
        davchana 4y ago
        In US, I much later found that the truck -ish symbol I thought was a School Bus or a Regular bus (because it was a truck with bonut, windows) is actually a fire truck symbol.
        Symbiote 4y ago
        Germany, Luxembourg and Slovakia use a modern train, although they do show it at an angle or head-on and with track, which will help distinguish it from a truck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_si...
  - Someone 4y ago
    Don’t forget the “no U-turn” signs, sometimes with a traffic sign _and_ text, every hundred meters or so, also in places where you have to be insane to try and make one, such as on Golden State bridge. I’ve also seen them on roads where the median strip was over 10 meters wide, with a ditch _and_ guard rails. I guess that’s what they have SUVs for.
kergonath 4y ago
> Sometimes road markings disappear in rain and the bright lights reflecting off the road can mess up the contrast. That’s a problem that a lot of countries solved a long while ago… The solution is a bit of paint every 10 years or so. There are cultural reasons, with the US preferring words and abbreviations and steadfastly refusing pictures that are standard in most of the world. But it is not a technical problem.
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  I some circumstances it really is not sufficient. I only experienced it Seattle so I don't expect it to be a common experience. I don't know why their roads are so shiny in the rain. They could be using a different surface finish for their roads.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  Yep, Vienna Convention is 50+ years today
- Amezarak 4y ago
  He’s not saying the markings wash away in rain, he’s saying 3” of water on the ground at night make the paint invisible.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    If the water is high enough that you don’t see the markings, then driving is a terrible idea as you don’t know what else you’re not seeing.
    - Amezarak 4y ago
      It takes very little water, especially at night, to totally obscure road markings. If we took that advice, then you couldn't drive on rainy nights at all. Just like the GP said, lighting can make the situation worse by reflecting off the water. The signage is a great backup in this scenario. It's not clear to be what else you think the water might be obscuring in this scenario. Maybe potholes, on poorly maintained roads you're not familiar with? At least where I live, that's not a problem.

account42 4y ago

I have never seen PED XING used (don't live in the US) but from a quick image search it is used for both signage and road markings. In either both cases there are more intuitively understandable options - a literal (zebra) crossing drawn on the road or a sign of a crossing pedestrian. That this doesn't seem to be widely adopted accross the world and that searching returns many people asking WTF it means reinforces that idea.

davchana 4y ago
I too saw them ever in US only. Most of these have multiple set of signs. PED XING on Road as an early warning. A metal sign post on the side depicting a pedestrian. Then the actual White Lines, the crossing. Similar text examples on road are like STOP AHEAD, SCHOOL AREA, RIGHT ONLY, LEFT ONLY, FWY NNN etc.
- TRiG_Ireland 4y ago
  The USA is weirdly fond of using words (or cryptic abbreviations of words) where other countries use icons. The Slate article "The Big Red Word vs. the Little Green Man" has more on this. (I'd link it, but Slate is down right now.) See also in transport timetables, where every other country in the world would use a 24-hour clock, the USA not only uses the 12-hour clock, but furthermore does an extra layer of abbreviation used only in the USA and nowhere else. I was in a New York airport staring at signs saying 9:06p and similar for several minutes before I even worked out they were supposed to be times. The US makes no accommodations for tourists even in major international transport hubs. Strange country.
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    The USA is weirdly fond of using words (or cryptic abbreviations of words) where other countries use icons It's not weird at all. The rules were created at a time when the United States was very monolingual. Europe made its rules around symbols because there are lots of people speaking lots of languages next to one another and crossing borders. Not weird at all. Just logic and history.
    - Someone 4y ago
      AFAIK, Europe uses symbols because you have to be able to detect them when you’re driving past at speed in all kinds of weather. That also is the reason why, even today, the train on traffic signs is a steam train; it makes it easier to distinguish it from a truck. I also would be curious when, if ever, the USA was “very monolingual”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4092008/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4092008/: “At the time of independence, non-English European immigrants made up one quarter of the population and in Pennsylvania two-fifths of the population spoke German. In addition, an unknown but presumably significant share of the new nation's inhabitants spoke an American Indian or African language, suggesting that perhaps a third or more of all Americans spoke a language other than English. With the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 (which doubled the size of the country), the Treaty of 1818 with Britain (which added the Oregon Country), the Adams-Onís Treaty of 1819 with Spain (which gave Florida to the U.S.), and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 (which acquired nearly half of Mexico), tens of thousands of French and Spanish speakers along with many more slaves and the diverse indigenous peoples of those vast territories were added to the linguistic mix.”
      - davchana 4y ago
        In US, I much later found that the truck -ish symbol I thought was a School Bus or a Regular bus (because it was a truck with bonut, windows) is actually a fire truck symbol.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        Germany, Luxembourg and Slovakia use a modern train, although they do show it at an angle or head-on and with track, which will help distinguish it from a truck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_si...
- Someone 4y ago
  Don’t forget the “no U-turn” signs, sometimes with a traffic sign _and_ text, every hundred meters or so, also in places where you have to be insane to try and make one, such as on Golden State bridge. I’ve also seen them on roads where the median strip was over 10 meters wide, with a ditch _and_ guard rails. I guess that’s what they have SUVs for.

kergonath 4y ago

> Sometimes road markings disappear in rain and the bright lights reflecting off the road can mess up the contrast. That’s a problem that a lot of countries solved a long while ago… The solution is a bit of paint every 10 years or so. There are cultural reasons, with the US preferring words and abbreviations and steadfastly refusing pictures that are standard in most of the world. But it is not a technical problem.

cjbgkagh 4y ago
I some circumstances it really is not sufficient. I only experienced it Seattle so I don't expect it to be a common experience. I don't know why their roads are so shiny in the rain. They could be using a different surface finish for their roads.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
Yep, Vienna Convention is 50+ years today
Amezarak 4y ago
He’s not saying the markings wash away in rain, he’s saying 3” of water on the ground at night make the paint invisible.
- kergonath 4y ago
  If the water is high enough that you don’t see the markings, then driving is a terrible idea as you don’t know what else you’re not seeing.
  - Amezarak 4y ago
    It takes very little water, especially at night, to totally obscure road markings. If we took that advice, then you couldn't drive on rainy nights at all. Just like the GP said, lighting can make the situation worse by reflecting off the water. The signage is a great backup in this scenario. It's not clear to be what else you think the water might be obscuring in this scenario. Maybe potholes, on poorly maintained roads you're not familiar with? At least where I live, that's not a problem.