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How can I make sure a screen reader reads "In Hamlet, Act Ⅳ, Scene Ⅸ..." correctly? Easy: By writing "In Hamlet, Act 4, Scene 9..." instead. There simply is n

How can I make sure a screen reader reads "In Hamlet, Act Ⅳ, Scene Ⅸ..." correctly? Easy: By writing "In Hamlet, Act 4, Scene 9..." instead. There simply is no reason to use relics of cultures that fell before long before the invention of the printing press in a modern context such as a TTS based screen reading software, if said relics interfere with such systems functionality. This goes double for instances where such relics have multiple representations, that make the problem unnecessarily harder than it already is. Roman Numerals are one such instance, because we can write IV or Ⅳ.

Vrondi 4y ago
You have a TARDIS to go back and tell Shakespeare this, do you?
- usrbinbash 4y ago
  No I don't. And neither does Mr. Shakespeare. And because he doesn't, the decision how his works are represented in modern systems, is not up to him.
  - bazoom42 4y ago
    So Shakespares works should be edited to acommodate a software bug?
    - usrbinbash 4y ago
      How is replacing one system of writing numbers with another system of writing numbers, with the exact same numbers represented, editing the works? Btw. is it also a bug if a screenreader doesn't support Babylonian Cuneiform Numerals? They have Unicode Code points as well.
      - bazoom42 4y ago
        Yes that is editing. Modifying a text (whether small or large changes) is called editing. I have no opinion on Cuneiform.
        usrbinbash 4y ago
        Editing, to me, is changing the content of the text. Using another font, using a different way to represent numerals, or using bold text, isn't editing, it's formatting and styling. When my webbrowser renders markdown to html, it's not editing the text, its reformatting it.
        bazoom42 4y ago
        Adding emphasis in a text is also editing, even though the letters are the same.
    - bloak 4y ago
      Anything written before about 1755 gets heavily edited for modern readers because the old (and sometimes also inconsistent) spelling is a bit too painful. (I think Shakespeare's First Folio didn't distinguish between the letters U and V. Does adding that distinction count as an edit?) Also, according to online images, the First Folio had "Actus Primus. Scoena Prima." rather than "Act I Scene I"!
      - bazoom42 4y ago
        Yes they exist in numerous editions more or less edited and modernized. While some might like a modernized version, some might prefer or need access to the original text - e.g. the editors creating modernized versions!
        usrbinbash 4y ago
        And they are welcome to do so. Same as I are welcome to decide if supporting something that makes up a tiny tiny fraction of all written text in my software is worth the extra time and effort to build and maintain it, or not.
marginalia_nu 4y ago
To be fair, both number systems predate the printing press by quite a bit.
- usrbinbash 4y ago
  True, but one continues to be used long after it's invention, and the other was dropped from almost every single one of its original use-cases, because it sucks as a system to write numbers; It's hard to sort, it's hard to read/parse, it's a sign-value notation system making it suck for large numbers, its similarity to letters of the alphabet adds to the possible footguns, there is no zero, and it has no concept of values smaller than 1.
  - marginalia_nu 4y ago
    I'd argue it's been dropped from the places where the other system has clear advantages.
    - usrbinbash 4y ago
      Very true. But the question I now have to ask is: What tangible advantages do roman numerals confer in the spaces where they are still kept around.
      - marginalia_nu 4y ago
        They have stylistic and contextual advantages. Roman numerals carry the connotation of the numbers belonging to a title, the same way Writing Something Like This does. Except you can't do that with arabic numerals. They're all case-less. It's essentially a way of capitalizing numbers not entirely dissimilar to how Roman script in general is used as a way of capitalizing the English alphabet.
        usrbinbash 4y ago
        "Roman numerals carry the connotation of the numbers belonging to a title" Okay. I. Weigh 500g of flour into a mixing bowl II. Add one egg III. Pour 2 cups of milk into the bowl IV. Mix until you have a runny dough So what title does that belong to? What title does MCMXCIX belong to? None, because they are not in the context of a title. Same as how I learned to stop worrying and love Linux doesn't belong to a title unless it's in the context of a title: How I stopped worrying and love Linux - An Essay So if context is the deciding factor for something belonging to a title, what role does numeric notation play in there? Is 9 surprising ways how powershell can help my workflow any less a title than if I had used `IX` instead of `9`? > It's essentially a way of capitalizing numbers Okay, so how do I capitalize, say, 175,000,000,000 using roman numerals if I want to, eg. write the title of article about how many params GPT-3 has? A way of capitalizing numbers, that suddenly stops being useful when numbers are large, isn't a very good way in my opinion.

Vrondi 4y ago

You have a TARDIS to go back and tell Shakespeare this, do you?

usrbinbash 4y ago
No I don't. And neither does Mr. Shakespeare. And because he doesn't, the decision how his works are represented in modern systems, is not up to him.
- bazoom42 4y ago
  So Shakespares works should be edited to acommodate a software bug?
  - usrbinbash 4y ago
    How is replacing one system of writing numbers with another system of writing numbers, with the exact same numbers represented, editing the works? Btw. is it also a bug if a screenreader doesn't support Babylonian Cuneiform Numerals? They have Unicode Code points as well.
    - bazoom42 4y ago
      Yes that is editing. Modifying a text (whether small or large changes) is called editing. I have no opinion on Cuneiform.
      - usrbinbash 4y ago
        Editing, to me, is changing the content of the text. Using another font, using a different way to represent numerals, or using bold text, isn't editing, it's formatting and styling. When my webbrowser renders markdown to html, it's not editing the text, its reformatting it.
        bazoom42 4y ago
        Adding emphasis in a text is also editing, even though the letters are the same.
  - bloak 4y ago
    Anything written before about 1755 gets heavily edited for modern readers because the old (and sometimes also inconsistent) spelling is a bit too painful. (I think Shakespeare's First Folio didn't distinguish between the letters U and V. Does adding that distinction count as an edit?) Also, according to online images, the First Folio had "Actus Primus. Scoena Prima." rather than "Act I Scene I"!
    - bazoom42 4y ago
      Yes they exist in numerous editions more or less edited and modernized. While some might like a modernized version, some might prefer or need access to the original text - e.g. the editors creating modernized versions!
      - usrbinbash 4y ago
        And they are welcome to do so. Same as I are welcome to decide if supporting something that makes up a tiny tiny fraction of all written text in my software is worth the extra time and effort to build and maintain it, or not.

marginalia_nu 4y ago

To be fair, both number systems predate the printing press by quite a bit.

usrbinbash 4y ago
True, but one continues to be used long after it's invention, and the other was dropped from almost every single one of its original use-cases, because it sucks as a system to write numbers; It's hard to sort, it's hard to read/parse, it's a sign-value notation system making it suck for large numbers, its similarity to letters of the alphabet adds to the possible footguns, there is no zero, and it has no concept of values smaller than 1.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  I'd argue it's been dropped from the places where the other system has clear advantages.
  - usrbinbash 4y ago
    Very true. But the question I now have to ask is: What tangible advantages do roman numerals confer in the spaces where they are still kept around.
    - marginalia_nu 4y ago
      They have stylistic and contextual advantages. Roman numerals carry the connotation of the numbers belonging to a title, the same way Writing Something Like This does. Except you can't do that with arabic numerals. They're all case-less. It's essentially a way of capitalizing numbers not entirely dissimilar to how Roman script in general is used as a way of capitalizing the English alphabet.
      - usrbinbash 4y ago
        "Roman numerals carry the connotation of the numbers belonging to a title" Okay. I. Weigh 500g of flour into a mixing bowl II. Add one egg III. Pour 2 cups of milk into the bowl IV. Mix until you have a runny dough So what title does that belong to? What title does MCMXCIX belong to? None, because they are not in the context of a title. Same as how I learned to stop worrying and love Linux doesn't belong to a title unless it's in the context of a title: How I stopped worrying and love Linux - An Essay So if context is the deciding factor for something belonging to a title, what role does numeric notation play in there? Is 9 surprising ways how powershell can help my workflow any less a title than if I had used `IX` instead of `9`? > It's essentially a way of capitalizing numbers Okay, so how do I capitalize, say, 175,000,000,000 using roman numerals if I want to, eg. write the title of article about how many params GPT-3 has? A way of capitalizing numbers, that suddenly stops being useful when numbers are large, isn't a very good way in my opinion.