5 ms·

I think they potentially could have made a decent business out of it but they made a lot of bad business decisions. I find myself shaking my head at a lot of t

by pydry 4y ago

I think they potentially could have made a decent business out of it but they made a lot of bad business decisions. I find myself shaking my head at a lot of their technical decisions too. Podman seems to me to be a case study for how to do this right.

aviramha 4y ago
I am usually an early adopter but I keep coming back to Docker since Podman is still very rough around the edges, especially in terms of "non-direct" usage (aka other tools)
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  As someone who's been bitten by this, I'm not sure if it's an issue with podman itself as much as the tools which expect docker. It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but I expect more and more tools to pick it up.
  - laserlight 4y ago
    > It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement This is an unfortunate part IMHO. podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but it is advertised as such.
    - evilduck 4y ago
      Besides the advertising, it's very close to being a drop-in replacement but their pace isn't closing that gap quick enough (or maybe they don't want to, or it isn't possible, idk I'm just a user) so you get a false sense of confidence doing the simple stuff before you run into a parity problem.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      Worth remembering is that Docker supports Windows containers. That’s a hard requirement for many enterprises.
  - Kye 4y ago
    Is this a matter of developers constantly relearning the lesson of the folly of only supporting the current top thing, or is it a lot harder to support more than one?
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      I don't know how "hard" it is, but in my particular case I wanted to use this from intellij. It actually works, but the issue is that the docker emulation socket isn't where the ide expects it, and I haven't found a way to tell it where to look for. Once I simlinked the socket, everything worked.
      - yrro 4y ago
        This worked for me: Connect to Docker Daemon with -> TCP Socket -> Engine API URL -> unix:///run/user/$UID/podman/podman.sock
    - orthoxerox 4y ago
      The devil is in the details. For example, docker has a DNS service at 127.0.0.11 it injects into /etc/resolv.conf, while podman injects domain names of your network into /etc/hosts. Nginx requires a real DNS service for its `resolver` configuration.
- throwawaymanbot 4y ago
  [dead]
windexh8er 4y ago
Podman is interesting. I like the architecture problems it solves with respect to Docker but the way they went about it was typical big business Red Hat. Dan Walsh, Podman's BDFL it seems, basically stood in front of RHEL / OpenShift customers for years bashing Docker even when a majority of the things he was claiming were less than half baked. RHEL made sly moves like not supporting the Docker runtime, even at a time when it put their customers in an awkward spot before containerd won the k8s runtime war. Podman is backed by much larger corporate machinery. If anyone thinks that Podman "winning" is a good thing then you've played right in to Walsh's antics. RHEL wants nothing more than to have no friction when selling all the "open source" tooling you may need in your enterprise. Podman wasn't built out of necessity but out of fiscal competitive maneuvering. And it's working. I see so many articles on the "risks" of Docker vs Podman. The root wars are all over the place. Yet... The topic is blown way out of proportion by RHEL for a reason: FUD all in the name of sales. Is there merit to the claim? For sure. Docker's architecture was originally built up as client/server for a different purpose. That didn't play out and the architecture ended up being a side effect of that. But we don't see container escape nearly as much as Red Hat would like us to believe. I keep paying Docker because I don't want to live in Red Hat's world, with their tooling that they can just lock out of other platforms once they feel like it. No thanks.
- javajosh 4y ago
  >I don't want to live in Red Hat's world, with their tooling that they can just lock out of other platforms once they feel like it Explain please. This sounds like you're accusing RH of sabotaging Docker, or planning to. That's a very serious accusation requiring proof.
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    Some of it also sounds a bit like leftover angst from Red Hat winning the systemd war too. Turns out hanging out in someone else’s cathedral can have some pretty big benefits.
    - Gibheer 4y ago

by pydry 4y ago

aviramha 4y ago

I am usually an early adopter but I keep coming back to Docker since Podman is still very rough around the edges, especially in terms of "non-direct" usage (aka other tools)

vladvasiliu 4y ago
As someone who's been bitten by this, I'm not sure if it's an issue with podman itself as much as the tools which expect docker. It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but I expect more and more tools to pick it up.
- laserlight 4y ago
  > It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement This is an unfortunate part IMHO. podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but it is advertised as such.
  - evilduck 4y ago
    Besides the advertising, it's very close to being a drop-in replacement but their pace isn't closing that gap quick enough (or maybe they don't want to, or it isn't possible, idk I'm just a user) so you get a false sense of confidence doing the simple stuff before you run into a parity problem.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Worth remembering is that Docker supports Windows containers. That’s a hard requirement for many enterprises.
- Kye 4y ago
  Is this a matter of developers constantly relearning the lesson of the folly of only supporting the current top thing, or is it a lot harder to support more than one?
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I don't know how "hard" it is, but in my particular case I wanted to use this from intellij. It actually works, but the issue is that the docker emulation socket isn't where the ide expects it, and I haven't found a way to tell it where to look for. Once I simlinked the socket, everything worked.
    - yrro 4y ago
      This worked for me: Connect to Docker Daemon with -> TCP Socket -> Engine API URL -> unix:///run/user/$UID/podman/podman.sock
  - orthoxerox 4y ago
    The devil is in the details. For example, docker has a DNS service at 127.0.0.11 it injects into /etc/resolv.conf, while podman injects domain names of your network into /etc/hosts. Nginx requires a real DNS service for its `resolver` configuration.
throwawaymanbot 4y ago
[dead]

windexh8er 4y ago

Podman is interesting. I like the architecture problems it solves with respect to Docker but the way they went about it was typical big business Red Hat. Dan Walsh, Podman's BDFL it seems, basically stood in front of RHEL / OpenShift customers for years bashing Docker even when a majority of the things he was claiming were less than half baked. RHEL made sly moves like not supporting the Docker runtime, even at a time when it put their customers in an awkward spot before containerd won the k8s runtime war. Podman is backed by much larger corporate machinery. If anyone thinks that Podman "winning" is a good thing then you've played right in to Walsh's antics. RHEL wants nothing more than to have no friction when selling all the "open source" tooling you may need in your enterprise. Podman wasn't built out of necessity but out of fiscal competitive maneuvering. And it's working. I see so many articles on the "risks" of Docker vs Podman. The root wars are all over the place. Yet... The topic is blown way out of proportion by RHEL for a reason: FUD all in the name of sales. Is there merit to the claim? For sure. Docker's architecture was originally built up as client/server for a different purpose. That didn't play out and the architecture ended up being a side effect of that. But we don't see container escape nearly as much as Red Hat would like us to believe. I keep paying Docker because I don't want to live in Red Hat's world, with their tooling that they can just lock out of other platforms once they feel like it. No thanks.

javajosh 4y ago
>I don't want to live in Red Hat's world, with their tooling that they can just lock out of other platforms once they feel like it Explain please. This sounds like you're accusing RH of sabotaging Docker, or planning to. That's a very serious accusation requiring proof.
- mikepurvis 4y ago
  Some of it also sounds a bit like leftover angst from Red Hat winning the systemd war too. Turns out hanging out in someone else’s cathedral can have some pretty big benefits.
  - Gibheer 4y ago