6 ms·

> The article is an attack on Peter Thiel, not SVB. I don’t understand this comment. The article doesn’t pretend to not be an attack on people like Thiel. It’s

> The article is an attack on Peter Thiel, not SVB. I don’t understand this comment. The article doesn’t pretend to not be an attack on people like Thiel. It’s in the title. So what’s your point—is Thiel above criticism? And since you imply that a publication somehow automatically loses credibility on this topic by leaning left, here’s a Financial Times opinion piece with a similar premise: https://archive.is/6MBEL https://archive.is/6MBEL

yucky 4y ago
Not to speak for OP, but I think the point is obvious. Silicon Valley culture is liberal to progressive, not libertarian. That means more government intervention is the norm in the industry, not less. Thiel is more of an exception in that regard. The entire premise that Silicon Valley has a libertarian culture is flawed, which is they the article can't back it up.
- toshredsyousay 4y ago
  So my understanding is Silicon Valley programmers have a liberal to progressive culture, but the VCs that fund tech companies have the reputation of being libertarian. Thiel at least a is a noted libertarian. The stereotype is that rich investors have these 'libertarian' ideals where they believe that, freed from burdensome taxes and living in a world where bailouts don't happen, they will invest wisely and create a tech utopia thanks to 'survival of the fittest' principles. However, people feel these rich investor types behave more along the lines of 'libertarian principles when we make money, socialism when we are losing money'. I don't know the extent to that which is true but obviously when rich people have their money threatened it makes sense that they would want a bailout even according to their own 'principles' they shouldn't get it.
  - yucky 4y ago
    > Thiel at least a is a noted libertarian. I think the argument is he's one of the only ones. The claim that SV is a hotbed of libertarians isn't backed up by facts.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Peter Thiel is liberal to progressive?
  - yucky 4y ago
    I said he was an exception. The general culture of Silicon Valley is liberal to progressive. Thiel is a libertarian, which is uncommon in the industry.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      Larry Ellison? Mark Zuckerberg? Elon Musk? Sam Altman? ...
      - yucky 4y ago
        I don't know enough about Altman to say one way or the other, but there is nothing Libertarian about the other 3. In fact, even Thiel is a stretch to call libertarian considering he donated to Trump who is the opposite of a libertarian.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        Fair point. They don't really believe in anything but their own egos. Everything else espoused is in temporary service of their true dogma.
        licebmi__at__ 4y ago
        Thiel is the rare breed libertarian who has pondered on his ideology more than a couple of mins and beyond feel good freedom statements, saw that it will conduce to corporate fiefdom, and said: “hey, that looks nice” I actually respect him a little more than the average libertarian just because of that.
Aunche 4y ago
Thiel is entitled to a lot of criticism, but this is dumbest possible criticism. If Thiel took his money out of SVB, then he didn't receive a bailout. That's 100% consistent with libertarianism. But then he's a hypocrite because he's a "tech bro" and some other "tech bros", who the article makes no effort to explain why they are libertarian, asked for bailouts.
- _ktx2 4y ago
  Big and little L libertarianism are a constant target for some people on the left despite having near zero voting power or representation outside of individual ideology. I get exhausted with this kind of rhetoric but it's not atypical of the left or the right for that matter. It's also typical of just angry people with next to zero explanations for why their lives aren't as easy as their parents, so they opt for "let's smack libertarianism around a bit"
DrBazza 4y ago
The FT is also a left leaning newspaper as it has had to increasingly post 'commentary' articles to stay relevant in the 2020s. Long gone are the days of its dull hard factual reporting that was of actual utility to London traders since the rise of the internet. I had no 'point' other than to state that the article headline was misleading, the content was weak at best with sound bite quotes and zero context. I referenced the wikipedia article so that non-UK readers have some context regarding the publication.
- sofixa 4y ago
  The FT is not a left leaning newspaper in the traditional economic sense, even if they are somewhat progressive on the social scale. Why would you characterise them as left? They're obviously pro-business, pro-free trade, anti-traditional social stuff (e.g. the pension reform in France is admired) and have done some great investigative journalism recently (Wirecard and Ukraine come to mind).
  - corbulo 4y ago
    Theyre neoliberals. Hardly a better mold that fits them.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Don't split hairs, "progressive" and "left" are the same thing.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Progressive is more on the social axis, meanwhile left is applied for both social and economic ones. FT are somewhat socially progressive, but right on the economic axis. Yes, using left/right instead of something like a radar/pizza chart for political leanings is extremely limited.
fidgewidge 4y ago
> since you imply that a publication somehow automatically loses credibility on this topic by leaning left Funny how so many of the replies are shocked by this idea when virtually every single story posted to HN from a right leaning outlet is flooded with comments of the form "you can't trust this story, it comes from a right leaning outlet" and the post itself will often be quickly flagged to death. What goes around comes around.

yucky 4y ago

Not to speak for OP, but I think the point is obvious. Silicon Valley culture is liberal to progressive, not libertarian. That means more government intervention is the norm in the industry, not less. Thiel is more of an exception in that regard. The entire premise that Silicon Valley has a libertarian culture is flawed, which is they the article can't back it up.

toshredsyousay 4y ago
So my understanding is Silicon Valley programmers have a liberal to progressive culture, but the VCs that fund tech companies have the reputation of being libertarian. Thiel at least a is a noted libertarian. The stereotype is that rich investors have these 'libertarian' ideals where they believe that, freed from burdensome taxes and living in a world where bailouts don't happen, they will invest wisely and create a tech utopia thanks to 'survival of the fittest' principles. However, people feel these rich investor types behave more along the lines of 'libertarian principles when we make money, socialism when we are losing money'. I don't know the extent to that which is true but obviously when rich people have their money threatened it makes sense that they would want a bailout even according to their own 'principles' they shouldn't get it.
- yucky 4y ago
  > Thiel at least a is a noted libertarian. I think the argument is he's one of the only ones. The claim that SV is a hotbed of libertarians isn't backed up by facts.
wolverine876 4y ago
Peter Thiel is liberal to progressive?
- yucky 4y ago
  I said he was an exception. The general culture of Silicon Valley is liberal to progressive. Thiel is a libertarian, which is uncommon in the industry.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Larry Ellison? Mark Zuckerberg? Elon Musk? Sam Altman? ...
    - yucky 4y ago
      I don't know enough about Altman to say one way or the other, but there is nothing Libertarian about the other 3. In fact, even Thiel is a stretch to call libertarian considering he donated to Trump who is the opposite of a libertarian.
      - wolverine876 4y ago
        Fair point. They don't really believe in anything but their own egos. Everything else espoused is in temporary service of their true dogma.
      - licebmi__at__ 4y ago
        Thiel is the rare breed libertarian who has pondered on his ideology more than a couple of mins and beyond feel good freedom statements, saw that it will conduce to corporate fiefdom, and said: “hey, that looks nice” I actually respect him a little more than the average libertarian just because of that.

Aunche 4y ago

Thiel is entitled to a lot of criticism, but this is dumbest possible criticism. If Thiel took his money out of SVB, then he didn't receive a bailout. That's 100% consistent with libertarianism. But then he's a hypocrite because he's a "tech bro" and some other "tech bros", who the article makes no effort to explain why they are libertarian, asked for bailouts.

_ktx2 4y ago
Big and little L libertarianism are a constant target for some people on the left despite having near zero voting power or representation outside of individual ideology. I get exhausted with this kind of rhetoric but it's not atypical of the left or the right for that matter. It's also typical of just angry people with next to zero explanations for why their lives aren't as easy as their parents, so they opt for "let's smack libertarianism around a bit"

DrBazza 4y ago

The FT is also a left leaning newspaper as it has had to increasingly post 'commentary' articles to stay relevant in the 2020s. Long gone are the days of its dull hard factual reporting that was of actual utility to London traders since the rise of the internet. I had no 'point' other than to state that the article headline was misleading, the content was weak at best with sound bite quotes and zero context. I referenced the wikipedia article so that non-UK readers have some context regarding the publication.

sofixa 4y ago
The FT is not a left leaning newspaper in the traditional economic sense, even if they are somewhat progressive on the social scale. Why would you characterise them as left? They're obviously pro-business, pro-free trade, anti-traditional social stuff (e.g. the pension reform in France is admired) and have done some great investigative journalism recently (Wirecard and Ukraine come to mind).
- corbulo 4y ago
  Theyre neoliberals. Hardly a better mold that fits them.
- smsm42 4y ago
  Don't split hairs, "progressive" and "left" are the same thing.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Progressive is more on the social axis, meanwhile left is applied for both social and economic ones. FT are somewhat socially progressive, but right on the economic axis. Yes, using left/right instead of something like a radar/pizza chart for political leanings is extremely limited.

fidgewidge 4y ago

> since you imply that a publication somehow automatically loses credibility on this topic by leaning left Funny how so many of the replies are shocked by this idea when virtually every single story posted to HN from a right leaning outlet is flooded with comments of the form "you can't trust this story, it comes from a right leaning outlet" and the post itself will often be quickly flagged to death. What goes around comes around.