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If US/EU get just a significant fraction of those developers needed, software dev salaries will go to the level of other engineering, say mechanical, constructi

If US/EU get just a significant fraction of those developers needed, software dev salaries will go to the level of other engineering, say mechanical, construction or material one. Employers would be very happy with that. And lets be honest here, its not that different job despite what some bigger egos think about their work and echo chambers that keep them in that dream. I don't agree those other engineers are treated as cattle, merely as normal employees. IT, mostly in SV and other places cargo-culting ie Google is often really treated like divas. Bear in mind that this was never true in corporations where IT was treated as a cost center, ie banking. But from various HN posts it seems that typical young SV dev has no experience with that and many feel they are changing the world for the better, when reality its at best a zero sum game, and often not even that (ie optimizing ad revenue stream for your corporation is definitely loss for mankind as a whole, or anything that makes societal parasites who breed depression like facebook/insta/tiktok more effective at their goals). But folks for some obscure reason need to feel that their work has a good purpose and high moral ground, hence sometimes quite advanced mental gymnastics seen also here.

galangalalgol 4y ago
As you hint, incredible demand for full stack developers created high salaries at businesses that viewed that as their core product. Businesses that built things that had software mostly kept paying what they always had. That voracious demand seemed to feed on itself a bit and grow on its own. When times got rough those businesses asked themselves if they were getting the expected roi on all those positions, and if they could be more efficient and do almost as well with fewer heads. They apparently decided they could. I don't find that surprising, software isn't infinitely improvable. Once you have a product done and refined, there simply becomes less to do over time. If the hours spent maintaining a site never decrease from initial development levels, you are doing something wrong.
cj 4y ago
For any curious re: software vs. mechanical engineer salaries: Software: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm Mechanical: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172141.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172141.htm The 75th percentile for Software is $151k vs. $120k for Mechanical. Median is $120k vs. $95k. So about 20% higher for Software. I would have expected the difference to be higher based on levels.fyi and anecdotal salaries shared on HN. I guess the average software engineer also isn't working for a top 5 tech company who pay well above average.
908B64B197 4y ago
> IT, mostly in SV and other places cargo-culting ie Google is often really treated like divas. Bear in mind that this was never true in corporations where IT was treated as a cost center, ie banking. It's interesting to look at fintech, where banks purchase tech focused company with great engineers because their internal IT simply can't compete thanks to a cost-center culture. Any industry that doesn't have a regulatory moat around it has tech circling it, looking for the parts of the business with the biggest margins. Even Amazon and Apple are timidly entering highly regulated markets such as health.

galangalalgol 4y ago

As you hint, incredible demand for full stack developers created high salaries at businesses that viewed that as their core product. Businesses that built things that had software mostly kept paying what they always had. That voracious demand seemed to feed on itself a bit and grow on its own. When times got rough those businesses asked themselves if they were getting the expected roi on all those positions, and if they could be more efficient and do almost as well with fewer heads. They apparently decided they could. I don't find that surprising, software isn't infinitely improvable. Once you have a product done and refined, there simply becomes less to do over time. If the hours spent maintaining a site never decrease from initial development levels, you are doing something wrong.

cj 4y ago

For any curious re: software vs. mechanical engineer salaries: Software: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm Mechanical: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172141.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172141.htm The 75th percentile for Software is $151k vs. $120k for Mechanical. Median is $120k vs. $95k. So about 20% higher for Software. I would have expected the difference to be higher based on levels.fyi and anecdotal salaries shared on HN. I guess the average software engineer also isn't working for a top 5 tech company who pay well above average.

908B64B197 4y ago

> IT, mostly in SV and other places cargo-culting ie Google is often really treated like divas. Bear in mind that this was never true in corporations where IT was treated as a cost center, ie banking. It's interesting to look at fintech, where banks purchase tech focused company with great engineers because their internal IT simply can't compete thanks to a cost-center culture. Any industry that doesn't have a regulatory moat around it has tech circling it, looking for the parts of the business with the biggest margins. Even Amazon and Apple are timidly entering highly regulated markets such as health.