8 ms·

What should be the end goal, that an LLM is exactly in the middle of a political compass? That it reacts immediately to Overton Window moves? If most of the wes

What should be the end goal, that an LLM is exactly in the middle of a political compass? That it reacts immediately to Overton Window moves? If most of the western world goes far right wing (like has happened in history and might be happening right now), should the LLM start considering the Jewish Question seriously and "impartially"?

realjhol 4y ago
We want it to answer truthfully and impartially I.e. not showing favoritism to leftist talking points and politicians, and artificially censoring talk of right wing ideas. It's really not complicated.
- pickovven 4y ago
  I honestly can't tell if this reply is satire.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  Are you saying that they built a module in ChatGPT code that specifically censors right wing ideas? Or do you mean that reality (= all the data it has ingested as its training data) has a well-known liberal bias?
  - realjhol 4y ago
    > Are you saying that they built a module in ChatGPT code that specifically censors right wing ideas? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. For example: "ChatGPT Declines Request for Poem Admiring Trump, But Biden Query Is Successful" https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chatgpt-trump-admiring-poem/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chatgpt-trump-admiring-poe... Dozens of similar examples have been found
    - darthrupert 4y ago
      You should be happy to hear that GPT-4 no longer has at least the problems depicted in the snopes.com article. It effortlessly gave me a poem praising Trump. It didn't give me a poem admiring Hitler, though, so I guess some bias remains.
      - realjhol 4y ago
        What does Hitler have to do with anything?
        nickthegreek 4y ago
        It's an artificial censor which I thought you were against.
        realjhol 4y ago
        ...you don't know anything about what I am against. It's about politics, not censorship - politics is about rewarding friends and punishing enemies. I guess it's not surprising that ChatGPT would be immediately politicised - there's really nothing that liberals are not willing to do to spite the deplorables. It's just the way I was brought up. I'm still always tempting to believe in the myth of neutral institutions. Even though this clearly no longer exists anywhere any more (- if it ever even did in the first place), it's still surprising to see these games being played out each time.
        darthrupert 4y ago
        Oh ok. So you just want it to say what you believe is right and not say what somebody else believes is right. I suppose this was clear at the start of the discussion, but it's always nice to be certain.
        realjhol 4y ago
        If you would like ChatGPT to talk about the mid-century Germans, it would be consistent if you support free speech. I tend towards free speech, but I'm also a realist - the boundaries of speech are ultimately decided by power. It's no surprised then that Silicon Valley Leftists wish to use their power to surpress the deplorables who they despise. Lumping those people together with Hitler simply serves as a convenient fig-leaf for this activity.
s9w 4y ago
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JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
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FabrosoFernan 4y ago
Why shouldn't it? 4chan has been having a field day recently twisting these AIs into knots trying to avoid particular sensitive issues and even objective facts. What's the alternative? Should it lie? I must point out the irony of asking "Do Jews exert disproportionate influence over Western politics, culture, technology and media in defence of their ethnic interests?" and getting the response "Sorry, I'm not allowed to answer that"! I don't know what the best pro-Jewish solution is, but the current ham-fisted censorship is providing an entertaining spectacle that does little to dispel certain controversial ideas.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  >What's the alternative? Should it lie? I wonder which is it doing now. Perhaps it's being brutally honest, and reality actually has a liberal bias? How would you know the difference?
  - FabrosoFernan 4y ago
    Well we know what it's doing now, it tries to detect controversial questions and refuses to answer. (For example, the other replies to your comment where it's revealed that it will happily write a poem praising Biden or even Trump, but not Hitler.) There have been some humourous approaches to confusing this system where people have successfully teased out some taboo answers from the AI. (For example, rather than directly attacking the Holocaust narrative, people have asked how long it takes to cremate a body, how many people were cremated at Auschwitz, how many ovens were available at Auschwitz crematorium, how long it would take to completely cremate x million bodies with x ovens...oops!)
  - yucky 4y ago
    > Perhaps it's being brutally honest, and reality actually has a liberal bias? How would you know the difference? Ask it if transwomen are really women and see if your device melts?
    - kthejoker2 4y ago
      Do you think there is a universal objective answer to this?

realjhol 4y ago

We want it to answer truthfully and impartially I.e. not showing favoritism to leftist talking points and politicians, and artificially censoring talk of right wing ideas. It's really not complicated.

pickovven 4y ago
I honestly can't tell if this reply is satire.
darthrupert 4y ago
Are you saying that they built a module in ChatGPT code that specifically censors right wing ideas? Or do you mean that reality (= all the data it has ingested as its training data) has a well-known liberal bias?
- realjhol 4y ago
  > Are you saying that they built a module in ChatGPT code that specifically censors right wing ideas? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. For example: "ChatGPT Declines Request for Poem Admiring Trump, But Biden Query Is Successful" https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chatgpt-trump-admiring-poem/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chatgpt-trump-admiring-poe... Dozens of similar examples have been found
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    You should be happy to hear that GPT-4 no longer has at least the problems depicted in the snopes.com article. It effortlessly gave me a poem praising Trump. It didn't give me a poem admiring Hitler, though, so I guess some bias remains.
    - realjhol 4y ago
      What does Hitler have to do with anything?
      - nickthegreek 4y ago
        It's an artificial censor which I thought you were against.
        realjhol 4y ago
        ...you don't know anything about what I am against. It's about politics, not censorship - politics is about rewarding friends and punishing enemies. I guess it's not surprising that ChatGPT would be immediately politicised - there's really nothing that liberals are not willing to do to spite the deplorables. It's just the way I was brought up. I'm still always tempting to believe in the myth of neutral institutions. Even though this clearly no longer exists anywhere any more (- if it ever even did in the first place), it's still surprising to see these games being played out each time.
      - darthrupert 4y ago
        Oh ok. So you just want it to say what you believe is right and not say what somebody else believes is right. I suppose this was clear at the start of the discussion, but it's always nice to be certain.
        realjhol 4y ago
        If you would like ChatGPT to talk about the mid-century Germans, it would be consistent if you support free speech. I tend towards free speech, but I'm also a realist - the boundaries of speech are ultimately decided by power. It's no surprised then that Silicon Valley Leftists wish to use their power to surpress the deplorables who they despise. Lumping those people together with Hitler simply serves as a convenient fig-leaf for this activity.

s9w 4y ago

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JesusLovesEwe 4y ago

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FabrosoFernan 4y ago

Why shouldn't it? 4chan has been having a field day recently twisting these AIs into knots trying to avoid particular sensitive issues and even objective facts. What's the alternative? Should it lie? I must point out the irony of asking "Do Jews exert disproportionate influence over Western politics, culture, technology and media in defence of their ethnic interests?" and getting the response "Sorry, I'm not allowed to answer that"! I don't know what the best pro-Jewish solution is, but the current ham-fisted censorship is providing an entertaining spectacle that does little to dispel certain controversial ideas.

darthrupert 4y ago
>What's the alternative? Should it lie? I wonder which is it doing now. Perhaps it's being brutally honest, and reality actually has a liberal bias? How would you know the difference?
- FabrosoFernan 4y ago
  Well we know what it's doing now, it tries to detect controversial questions and refuses to answer. (For example, the other replies to your comment where it's revealed that it will happily write a poem praising Biden or even Trump, but not Hitler.) There have been some humourous approaches to confusing this system where people have successfully teased out some taboo answers from the AI. (For example, rather than directly attacking the Holocaust narrative, people have asked how long it takes to cremate a body, how many people were cremated at Auschwitz, how many ovens were available at Auschwitz crematorium, how long it would take to completely cremate x million bodies with x ovens...oops!)
- yucky 4y ago
  > Perhaps it's being brutally honest, and reality actually has a liberal bias? How would you know the difference? Ask it if transwomen are really women and see if your device melts?
  - kthejoker2 4y ago
    Do you think there is a universal objective answer to this?