5 ms·

Extending H-1B visa grace period from 60 to 180 days

24 points by platzhirsch 4y ago

platzhirsch 4y ago
What I find confusing is that on the one hand it says it will be implemented in three months, but on the other hand it's called a recommendation.
- samspenc 4y ago
  This is what is confusing to me as well. If it's a recommendation, it will go to USCIS and they will need to make a final decision on these recommendations right? So will only the recommendations that are approved be announced in three months? Or will all the recommendations be approved and then announced? This part is not clear.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  They are a group of clowns with no authority. Their recommendation is not worth the piece of paper it is written on and carries no weight.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
ulfw 4y ago
It's stupid there is one at all. I prefer the system Hong Kong uses for work visas. They're issued for 2-3 years and are valid till that time. If you quit, get laid off, whatever before that time your visa to stay is still valid until the original set time. You just won't be able to extend it again until you have a new job/sponsor. Makes planning much easier by setting expectations for a certain date in the future.
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  What happens if you lose your job right and the end of your visa?
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    That was the end of the visa anyway, so it isn't a surprise.
  - ulfw 4y ago
    It's rare you lose it right then and there. Usually you'd have your employer extend it 2-3 months before it's due to expire. Also the immigration services usually give you several weeks extension when you explain your case/need to sort out things or will let you stay on a visitor visa (30-90 days depending on country of origin). But the main difference for me is that you have a set date with an expectation of either leaving or extending your stay.
    - refurb 4y ago
      You can apply for a visitor visa if you lose your H1-B to allow for time to wrap things up.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  This is the same way work visas in Japan work. I think the US is really the outlier here in having a crappy and exploitative work visa system. People should really think twice before moving to the US for such jobs, and not do things like buy houses as long as their existence there is so tenuous.
  - vinay427 4y ago
    The tied-to-employer visa also exists in the UK (SWV), Switzerland (B and L, I believe) and several other European countries (not sure if a majority).
williamDafoe 4y ago
We have a bubble in SWE hiring in the USA, it peaked in July 2021 at 220% of normal hiring! https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/was-there-a-tech-hiring-bubble/ https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/was-there-a-tech-hir... It makes no sense to keep all the unemployed H1Bs since they usually are laid off as a last resort due to the impact it will have on their lives. Since they often get favoritism in layoffs, why favor them even more? I know many American Citizens for example a Chinese-born and naturalized guy who said in 2009 he was laid off first in a team of 18 Chinese H1Bs because the rest of the team "would have to go home!" He was not just good he was an authority on OSPF - I hired him for my startup in 2003. In 2011 he went back to Cisco in the same division at an architect (even higher) rank ...
- platzhirsch 4y ago
  There is a cap on H1-B every year (65k), however the majority of H1-B holders has been here for years: over 600k. On top of that, you couldn't even get a visa in 2021 to enter the US because of the COVID-19 restrictions that were only loosened at the end of 2021.
- throw93 4y ago
  > due to the impact it will have on their lives The impact being to sell your house, car and other belongings, often for pennies and uproot your children who have only known US as their home. It's insanely cruel to want to immediately deport H1B holders who have been paying taxes for 10-15 years. And all this because Wall Street thought the profits were not high enough. > Since they often get favoritism in layoffs, why favor them even more? How is it a favor to give someone more time to search for jobs? That's just being considerate. > he was laid off first in a team of 18 Chinese H1Bs because the rest of the team The evidence you gave is anecdotal. Many H1b workers were laid off during recent layoffs and scrambling to find a job in couple of weeks just to stay in the country. Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-layoffs-hit-h1b-visa-workers-hard-ca03c2cd https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-layoffs-hit-h1b-visa-worke...
  - refurb 4y ago
    You cant be on an H1-B for 10-15 years. It’s capped at two 3 year visas. And its a temporary work visa program. People know that when they sign up. I agree they should be give a period of time to find a new job, but when you get an H1-B visa it’s explicit that it’s temporary.
litiholofan 4y ago
What use does the US have for 100k laid off H-1Bs?
- bushbaba 4y ago
  Avoiding that talent going elsewhere
- platzhirsch 4y ago
  Paying taxes and eventually getting employed again, thus continuing to pay taxes. You would be surprised how hard someone works knowing they get a chance to stay in this country compared to someone who was born here.
  - anon291 4y ago
    That sounds exploitative, and I'm surprised seeing this kind of sentiment on Hacker News, which, from my perspective, typically is in favor of worker rights
    - Tanjreeve 4y ago
      The "pro worker" stance here being people being unemployed losing thousand having to uproot their lives potentially with families being pulled out of schools etc?
    - throw93 4y ago
      What's the use of worker rights if one is not given fair chance to be a worker again?
    - magixx 4y ago
      Of course it's exploitative, but I do see a longer grace period helping alleviate the pressure that such visa holders would face. I'm surprised that FAANG companies haven't really offered subsidized housing as long as the employees retain their jobs or meet certain performance metrics. That's another great way to ultimately exploit certain workers while seeming like a huge perk.
    - 4y ago
codeddesign 4y ago
A mockery of our laws. H1-B is intended for companies that are unable to fill a specific role within that company. It is NOT a free green card. It is NOT a free pass to citizenship. Once that role is gone, so is their visa. This is what they agreed to. Their visa’s should be revoked. If they choose to get another visa through another company after this they have the ability to do so.
- llampx 4y ago
  Sorry but H1-B aka corporate slavery is abominable in the first place. That it is the way it is doesn't mean it is fair or ethical. Most other countries have moved to a more humane way of dealing with foreign workers, at least qualified immigrants where you don't immediately lose your entire life that you've built because of a layoff. If the answer is, well we're the US and this is the law here, well...
- reisse 4y ago
  You know that H1-B is officially a dual intent visa with a (albeit long) path to permanent residence, right?
- thunkshift1 4y ago
  You mind showing the illegals who pay zero taxes and yet get preferential political treatment the rulebook?
akomtu 4y ago
Those H1Bs should re-enter the US illegally, preferrably thru the southern border, and get their "grace period" extended indefinitely.
bubblethink 4y ago
So the background on this is that the grace period is a discretionary matter decided by USCIS and not a part of the legislation itself. A couple of months ago when the layoffs got past a critical threshold, people started asking for an extension in the grace period. At the time, USCIS' response was that changing the rule itself will take more than 60 days, so it's moot. Which is a bit silly since layoffs continue to happen. This recommendation to extend it though is just a recommendation, and there is no official word from USCIS on whether they are considering any change.
trafficante 4y ago
I’ve been renting a house in (what amounts to) an Intel/Nike company town where quite literally 70-80% of my entire neighborhood is Chinese or Indian. Having been already aware of the abused visa program and the green card restrictions, it still didn’t prepare me for the multiple times I’ve seen neighbors’ children bawling their eyes out from getting displaced in the middle of the school year. It’s asinine that so much attention and faux empathy is showered on the nearly 3 million people annually who decide to break the law before even getting into the country while nobody important seems to care about the problems facing the people who came here legally to quietly chase their own dreams and pay their taxes.
hnstqust1 4y ago
I spent about $125k pursuing my bachelors and masters degree in CS because my parents (who had nothing to do with my life whatsoever) made too much money, and I didn't quality for any aids or grants. It took me a decade to pay this off. Considering guest workers usually spend almost nothing for their degrees, it seems that Americans begin their careers with a significant financial disadvantage in comparison. Why can't people on these programs, or the employers of these people, be required to contribute to an education fund to help ensure domestic workers can compete?
- bubblethink 4y ago
  >Considering guest workers usually spend almost nothing for their degrees A majority of them do. The biggest faction of foreign workers you see in the US in tech get a Master's degree in the US. So much so that these programs would not exist if it weren't for foreign students. The MS programs are cash cows where foreign students subsidize the education for everyone else. >Why can't people on these programs, or the employers of these people, be required to contribute to an education fund to help ensure domestic workers can compete? See my point above. It's already priced in.

24 points by platzhirsch 4y ago

What I find confusing is that on the one hand it says it will be implemented in three months, but on the other hand it's called a recommendation.

samspenc 4y ago
This is what is confusing to me as well. If it's a recommendation, it will go to USCIS and they will need to make a final decision on these recommendations right? So will only the recommendations that are approved be announced in three months? Or will all the recommendations be approved and then announced? This part is not clear.
diebeforei485 4y ago
They are a group of clowns with no authority. Their recommendation is not worth the piece of paper it is written on and carries no weight.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

ulfw 4y ago

It's stupid there is one at all. I prefer the system Hong Kong uses for work visas. They're issued for 2-3 years and are valid till that time. If you quit, get laid off, whatever before that time your visa to stay is still valid until the original set time. You just won't be able to extend it again until you have a new job/sponsor. Makes planning much easier by setting expectations for a certain date in the future.

idontwantthis 4y ago
What happens if you lose your job right and the end of your visa?
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  That was the end of the visa anyway, so it isn't a surprise.
- ulfw 4y ago
  It's rare you lose it right then and there. Usually you'd have your employer extend it 2-3 months before it's due to expire. Also the immigration services usually give you several weeks extension when you explain your case/need to sort out things or will let you stay on a visitor visa (30-90 days depending on country of origin). But the main difference for me is that you have a set date with an expectation of either leaving or extending your stay.
  - refurb 4y ago
    You can apply for a visitor visa if you lose your H1-B to allow for time to wrap things up.
midoridensha 4y ago
This is the same way work visas in Japan work. I think the US is really the outlier here in having a crappy and exploitative work visa system. People should really think twice before moving to the US for such jobs, and not do things like buy houses as long as their existence there is so tenuous.
- vinay427 4y ago
  The tied-to-employer visa also exists in the UK (SWV), Switzerland (B and L, I believe) and several other European countries (not sure if a majority).

williamDafoe 4y ago

We have a bubble in SWE hiring in the USA, it peaked in July 2021 at 220% of normal hiring! https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/was-there-a-tech-hiring-bubble/ https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/was-there-a-tech-hir... It makes no sense to keep all the unemployed H1Bs since they usually are laid off as a last resort due to the impact it will have on their lives. Since they often get favoritism in layoffs, why favor them even more? I know many American Citizens for example a Chinese-born and naturalized guy who said in 2009 he was laid off first in a team of 18 Chinese H1Bs because the rest of the team "would have to go home!" He was not just good he was an authority on OSPF - I hired him for my startup in 2003. In 2011 he went back to Cisco in the same division at an architect (even higher) rank ...

platzhirsch 4y ago
There is a cap on H1-B every year (65k), however the majority of H1-B holders has been here for years: over 600k. On top of that, you couldn't even get a visa in 2021 to enter the US because of the COVID-19 restrictions that were only loosened at the end of 2021.
throw93 4y ago
> due to the impact it will have on their lives The impact being to sell your house, car and other belongings, often for pennies and uproot your children who have only known US as their home. It's insanely cruel to want to immediately deport H1B holders who have been paying taxes for 10-15 years. And all this because Wall Street thought the profits were not high enough. > Since they often get favoritism in layoffs, why favor them even more? How is it a favor to give someone more time to search for jobs? That's just being considerate. > he was laid off first in a team of 18 Chinese H1Bs because the rest of the team The evidence you gave is anecdotal. Many H1b workers were laid off during recent layoffs and scrambling to find a job in couple of weeks just to stay in the country. Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-layoffs-hit-h1b-visa-workers-hard-ca03c2cd https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-layoffs-hit-h1b-visa-worke...
- refurb 4y ago
  You cant be on an H1-B for 10-15 years. It’s capped at two 3 year visas. And its a temporary work visa program. People know that when they sign up. I agree they should be give a period of time to find a new job, but when you get an H1-B visa it’s explicit that it’s temporary.

litiholofan 4y ago

What use does the US have for 100k laid off H-1Bs?

bushbaba 4y ago
Avoiding that talent going elsewhere
platzhirsch 4y ago
Paying taxes and eventually getting employed again, thus continuing to pay taxes. You would be surprised how hard someone works knowing they get a chance to stay in this country compared to someone who was born here.
- anon291 4y ago
  That sounds exploitative, and I'm surprised seeing this kind of sentiment on Hacker News, which, from my perspective, typically is in favor of worker rights
  - Tanjreeve 4y ago
    The "pro worker" stance here being people being unemployed losing thousand having to uproot their lives potentially with families being pulled out of schools etc?
  - throw93 4y ago
    What's the use of worker rights if one is not given fair chance to be a worker again?
  - magixx 4y ago
    Of course it's exploitative, but I do see a longer grace period helping alleviate the pressure that such visa holders would face. I'm surprised that FAANG companies haven't really offered subsidized housing as long as the employees retain their jobs or meet certain performance metrics. That's another great way to ultimately exploit certain workers while seeming like a huge perk.
  - 4y ago

codeddesign 4y ago

A mockery of our laws. H1-B is intended for companies that are unable to fill a specific role within that company. It is NOT a free green card. It is NOT a free pass to citizenship. Once that role is gone, so is their visa. This is what they agreed to. Their visa’s should be revoked. If they choose to get another visa through another company after this they have the ability to do so.

llampx 4y ago
Sorry but H1-B aka corporate slavery is abominable in the first place. That it is the way it is doesn't mean it is fair or ethical. Most other countries have moved to a more humane way of dealing with foreign workers, at least qualified immigrants where you don't immediately lose your entire life that you've built because of a layoff. If the answer is, well we're the US and this is the law here, well...
reisse 4y ago
You know that H1-B is officially a dual intent visa with a (albeit long) path to permanent residence, right?
thunkshift1 4y ago
You mind showing the illegals who pay zero taxes and yet get preferential political treatment the rulebook?

akomtu 4y ago

Those H1Bs should re-enter the US illegally, preferrably thru the southern border, and get their "grace period" extended indefinitely.

bubblethink 4y ago

So the background on this is that the grace period is a discretionary matter decided by USCIS and not a part of the legislation itself. A couple of months ago when the layoffs got past a critical threshold, people started asking for an extension in the grace period. At the time, USCIS' response was that changing the rule itself will take more than 60 days, so it's moot. Which is a bit silly since layoffs continue to happen. This recommendation to extend it though is just a recommendation, and there is no official word from USCIS on whether they are considering any change.

trafficante 4y ago

I’ve been renting a house in (what amounts to) an Intel/Nike company town where quite literally 70-80% of my entire neighborhood is Chinese or Indian. Having been already aware of the abused visa program and the green card restrictions, it still didn’t prepare me for the multiple times I’ve seen neighbors’ children bawling their eyes out from getting displaced in the middle of the school year. It’s asinine that so much attention and faux empathy is showered on the nearly 3 million people annually who decide to break the law before even getting into the country while nobody important seems to care about the problems facing the people who came here legally to quietly chase their own dreams and pay their taxes.

hnstqust1 4y ago

I spent about $125k pursuing my bachelors and masters degree in CS because my parents (who had nothing to do with my life whatsoever) made too much money, and I didn't quality for any aids or grants. It took me a decade to pay this off. Considering guest workers usually spend almost nothing for their degrees, it seems that Americans begin their careers with a significant financial disadvantage in comparison. Why can't people on these programs, or the employers of these people, be required to contribute to an education fund to help ensure domestic workers can compete?

bubblethink 4y ago
>Considering guest workers usually spend almost nothing for their degrees A majority of them do. The biggest faction of foreign workers you see in the US in tech get a Master's degree in the US. So much so that these programs would not exist if it weren't for foreign students. The MS programs are cash cows where foreign students subsidize the education for everyone else. >Why can't people on these programs, or the employers of these people, be required to contribute to an education fund to help ensure domestic workers can compete? See my point above. It's already priced in.