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I don’t know why the author cringes so much or feels like they made mistakes. You don’t owe Chase anything, it’s on them to earn your business and treat you lik

I don’t know why the author cringes so much or feels like they made mistakes. You don’t owe Chase anything, it’s on them to earn your business and treat you like the major account you are. We had a similar situation and Chase treated us poorly, ultimately denying my wife and I a relatively small home mortgage, despite having millions in a business account with them. I will never forget how they made us feel. All I see in this story is more cluelessness from Chase, not any mistakes by the author. They’ve been chasing our business ever since we moved to SVB post Series A. They’re going to get it since we wired our money out of SVB today (not my decision), but do they deserve it? Absolutely not.

dcow 4y ago
You don't plop 35MM into a single bank account and sit on it. The cringe isn't about feeling bad for Chase. It's about watching a 22 year old learn how to manage incredible amounts of cash.
- jojobas 4y ago
  Are startups expected to hire a guy to stage fixed-term deposits across multiple banks and gamble on stocks and foreign exchange? Pretty sure they are not.
  - zer00eyz 4y ago
    Depends on how big you are. If your first friend at any company isn't someone in accounting your doing it wrong. Good accounting is not something you outsource, and a good accounting team is worth their weight in gold. If your concerned about exchange rates, you better have competent folks in accounting.
    - mcherm 4y ago
      > Good accounting is not something you outsource I'm happy to believe you on that point, but can you explain WHY? It appears to me that accounting is the exact type of generalized skill with well-established standards that makes sense to outsource.
      - zer00eyz 4y ago
        Thats the point, good accounting ISNT a generalized skill at all. Once you get past "how much is in the checking account" and into the why attached to quantity then you get insight. What is the cost and value of a client? Are there fixed costs (acquisition, setup) and variable (AWS/Usage). The ebb and flow of money and someone keeping an eye on it matter. Where and how you bank matters (lesson some are just learning). Hell just pricing a product internationally is a task that genuinely requires an accountant. Go hang with accountants, learn what they do and see the insight they provide.
    - TimTheTinker 4y ago
      Accountants should be the ones running the companies. Mine is run by them, and it's great. There are some incredible perks, like always knowing the company is financially in a very good place and taking appropriate risks, a culture of transparency and collaboration ... I could go on.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        First time I've heard a positive review about a company being run by the bean counters, who are generally more known for being brought in and cutting tiny luxuries which don't generate money or make financial sense, like free sodas in the break room.
        gcr 4y ago
        “Being brought in” could be the crucial difference, yeah? When a company starts with beans on staff from the start, maybe there’s more of a sense of security
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        TimTheTinker 4y ago
        They're accountants, but I wouldn't call them "bean counters". They have a vision for the office of the CFO, and it's that the accounting team rises above mere bean counting into financial leadership. The company was also a VC-backed startup and is on the road to IPO, so it's run like an investment, not a cost center -- and hiring and keeping great employees is a priority. The perks and benefits are really great. It has won awards for the last ~5 years for being the "best company to work for in $region".
    - jojobas 4y ago
      You might be confusing accounting with financial management. Accounting is outsourced by nearly 100% of startups. Financial management for startups with respect to "how big you are" is almost always "not big enough" until you have tens of millions. Both seed and series a are usually to be spent within a couple of years and hiring a full time financial manager to represent 5%-10% of payroll is just not worth it, he won't recoup his salary even by excellent trickery.
      - jbverschoor 4y ago
        All the same right? Something with money and numbers. Just like everybody in tech is doing something with computers and writing code
        jojobas 4y ago
        Oh you're a software developer? Can you fix my dishwasher?
        jbverschoor 4y ago
        Be careful what jokes you make about samsung iot appliances
  - kyawzazaw 4y ago
    some are doing laddered treasury bills
- csomar 4y ago
  Being focused on his startup instead of maximizing the yield of these $35M allowed him to turn it into a $5.5Bn company.
  - vinay_ys 4y ago
    This. It applies in personal life too. In the post covid world, I find many young engineers fall into the trap of squeezing more yield out of their meagre savings early in their career through financial engineering rather than focusing on their personal development and growing in their actual professional lives. All the amateur investors who made big returns in the 2020-22 period and thought they figured it out will now have a hard time making sense of the markets in the new regime of high interest rates.
    - ashwagary 4y ago
      >All the amateur investors who made big returns in the 2020-22 period and thought they figured it out Chasing big returns generally leads to massive losses so I cant fault people for sitting in cash but I dont recommend taking inflation lightly. The least one should do is beat that hurdle rate and conserve value.
    - dcow 4y ago
      But it’s not bad to diversify risk early on and have a plan for that. High yield savings accounts and treasury notes are standard practice. We’re not talking about founders taking moonshots in the market. We’re talking about $35MM in a bank account that doesn't even match inflation.
      - dcow 4y ago
        To put that into perspective. That's $1MM a year (at %3 inflation) going into the toilet just because you don't want to do some minimal cash management. You could hire a CFO for that price and it would pay for itself 3 times over. I mean I get the vibe and totally agree that you don't want to overthink things. But I also think it's easy to underestimate the value you're leaving on the table and the risk you're exposing yourself to by not giving it any thought.
tedunangst 4y ago
What more was Chase expected to do here? What would treating Hashicorp as a major account have entailed? A phone call to find out what else was needed?
- yesimahuman 4y ago
  In our experience there was so much they could have done. I just compare it to our experience with SVB which got us no-personal guarantee credit cards, availability of venture debt, access to mortgages (something I would have done if a local credit union hadn’t stepped up). Chase never did any of those things with us. They need to step it way up if they want to win startup business long term and not just in the wake of a crisis.
  - jacobsenscott 4y ago
    Well, chase won't lose your money, which sort of trumps all of that.
    - yesimahuman 4y ago
      Very fair. Let’s hope JPM doesn’t rest on their laurels here and can actually learn how to serve startups, because they have a long ways to go still
      - thebradbain 4y ago
        If you have enough assets, Chase will absolutely lend against that collateral. “Enough” is likely the key word. But if you have business or personal accounts with over a couple million (and certainly $10+ million), I would be shocked if someone higher up than a clerk hadn’t personally reached out to you, tried to take you out to coffee, and let you know the perks applicable to your personal situation they can provide you that you can’t find on a website. Sure, they likely weren’t as enticing as SVB’s perks nor as willing to lend to an account that had $0 yesterday and millions the next, but they absolutely will offer personal loans/mortgages against stock compensation on the guarantee you keep your account with them above a certain threshold, etc.
bmmayer1 4y ago
Agreed with this. The story written from Alex's perspective would probably be: "how I blew a once in a lifetime shot to be the best business banker in America but I took the opportunity for granted."
twelve40 4y ago
> chasing our business i see what you did there
gaadd33 4y ago
How could have Chase earned their business better when the person on the account says everything is fine and gets off the phone as fast as possible? I'm pretty sure more phone calls would have soured things. If the author was saying that chase then turned them down for a loan or something, sure that would be comparable.
- lmm 4y ago
  Give better information by email, something that doesn't interrupt me and make me deal with it right now? Other than that, it's not clear from this story why they chose Silicon Valley Bank - it sounds like this VP of Finance is the person who could explain what (if anything) they did better than Chase.
  - manigandham 4y ago
    Most people (especially here) would find those emails to be spam and never read them. Is that seriously your suggestion?
    - lmm 4y ago
      Spammy emails are somewhat annoying, but they're 10x better than spammy phone calls. Any company that wants me to do things over the phone will drop right to the bottom of my list, especially if they want to do it by them calling me rather than me calling them.
- re-thc 4y ago
  Maybe offer assistance or discounts or anything else? The usual emails of credit cards, better interest on savings (money sat in the account for nothing) or others if it didn't happen? At least from the recount there was no mention of e.g. we realised you're a big customer and we have some special packages for you. Services like AWS would immediate assign an account manager, want to know you more and offer training, assistance and all sorts of things and not just when you make a transfer.
- underdeserver 4y ago
stephen_g 4y ago
Yeah, it seems super weird this Alex guy didn't just send them some kind of brochure or information of "These are all the services Chase offers to businesses, give us a call". Also, the implication that the Alex guy was fired or something because a customer decided to switch banks seems to only indicate that Chase has a toxic internal culture. Customers switching banks is not unheard of...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > didn't just send them some kind of brochure or information of "These are all the services Chase offers to businesses, give us a call" It wouldn’t be read and now Alex is spamming him.

dcow 4y ago

You don't plop 35MM into a single bank account and sit on it. The cringe isn't about feeling bad for Chase. It's about watching a 22 year old learn how to manage incredible amounts of cash.

jojobas 4y ago
Are startups expected to hire a guy to stage fixed-term deposits across multiple banks and gamble on stocks and foreign exchange? Pretty sure they are not.
- zer00eyz 4y ago
  Depends on how big you are. If your first friend at any company isn't someone in accounting your doing it wrong. Good accounting is not something you outsource, and a good accounting team is worth their weight in gold. If your concerned about exchange rates, you better have competent folks in accounting.
  - mcherm 4y ago
    > Good accounting is not something you outsource I'm happy to believe you on that point, but can you explain WHY? It appears to me that accounting is the exact type of generalized skill with well-established standards that makes sense to outsource.
    - zer00eyz 4y ago
      Thats the point, good accounting ISNT a generalized skill at all. Once you get past "how much is in the checking account" and into the why attached to quantity then you get insight. What is the cost and value of a client? Are there fixed costs (acquisition, setup) and variable (AWS/Usage). The ebb and flow of money and someone keeping an eye on it matter. Where and how you bank matters (lesson some are just learning). Hell just pricing a product internationally is a task that genuinely requires an accountant. Go hang with accountants, learn what they do and see the insight they provide.
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    Accountants should be the ones running the companies. Mine is run by them, and it's great. There are some incredible perks, like always knowing the company is financially in a very good place and taking appropriate risks, a culture of transparency and collaboration ... I could go on.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      First time I've heard a positive review about a company being run by the bean counters, who are generally more known for being brought in and cutting tiny luxuries which don't generate money or make financial sense, like free sodas in the break room.
      - gcr 4y ago
        “Being brought in” could be the crucial difference, yeah? When a company starts with beans on staff from the start, maybe there’s more of a sense of security
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - TimTheTinker 4y ago
        They're accountants, but I wouldn't call them "bean counters". They have a vision for the office of the CFO, and it's that the accounting team rises above mere bean counting into financial leadership. The company was also a VC-backed startup and is on the road to IPO, so it's run like an investment, not a cost center -- and hiring and keeping great employees is a priority. The perks and benefits are really great. It has won awards for the last ~5 years for being the "best company to work for in $region".
  - jojobas 4y ago
    You might be confusing accounting with financial management. Accounting is outsourced by nearly 100% of startups. Financial management for startups with respect to "how big you are" is almost always "not big enough" until you have tens of millions. Both seed and series a are usually to be spent within a couple of years and hiring a full time financial manager to represent 5%-10% of payroll is just not worth it, he won't recoup his salary even by excellent trickery.
    - jbverschoor 4y ago
      All the same right? Something with money and numbers. Just like everybody in tech is doing something with computers and writing code
      - jojobas 4y ago
        Oh you're a software developer? Can you fix my dishwasher?
        jbverschoor 4y ago
        Be careful what jokes you make about samsung iot appliances
- kyawzazaw 4y ago
  some are doing laddered treasury bills
csomar 4y ago
Being focused on his startup instead of maximizing the yield of these $35M allowed him to turn it into a $5.5Bn company.
- vinay_ys 4y ago
  This. It applies in personal life too. In the post covid world, I find many young engineers fall into the trap of squeezing more yield out of their meagre savings early in their career through financial engineering rather than focusing on their personal development and growing in their actual professional lives. All the amateur investors who made big returns in the 2020-22 period and thought they figured it out will now have a hard time making sense of the markets in the new regime of high interest rates.
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    >All the amateur investors who made big returns in the 2020-22 period and thought they figured it out Chasing big returns generally leads to massive losses so I cant fault people for sitting in cash but I dont recommend taking inflation lightly. The least one should do is beat that hurdle rate and conserve value.
  - dcow 4y ago
    But it’s not bad to diversify risk early on and have a plan for that. High yield savings accounts and treasury notes are standard practice. We’re not talking about founders taking moonshots in the market. We’re talking about $35MM in a bank account that doesn't even match inflation.
    - dcow 4y ago
      To put that into perspective. That's $1MM a year (at %3 inflation) going into the toilet just because you don't want to do some minimal cash management. You could hire a CFO for that price and it would pay for itself 3 times over. I mean I get the vibe and totally agree that you don't want to overthink things. But I also think it's easy to underestimate the value you're leaving on the table and the risk you're exposing yourself to by not giving it any thought.

tedunangst 4y ago

What more was Chase expected to do here? What would treating Hashicorp as a major account have entailed? A phone call to find out what else was needed?

yesimahuman 4y ago
In our experience there was so much they could have done. I just compare it to our experience with SVB which got us no-personal guarantee credit cards, availability of venture debt, access to mortgages (something I would have done if a local credit union hadn’t stepped up). Chase never did any of those things with us. They need to step it way up if they want to win startup business long term and not just in the wake of a crisis.
- jacobsenscott 4y ago
  Well, chase won't lose your money, which sort of trumps all of that.
  - yesimahuman 4y ago
    Very fair. Let’s hope JPM doesn’t rest on their laurels here and can actually learn how to serve startups, because they have a long ways to go still
    - thebradbain 4y ago
      If you have enough assets, Chase will absolutely lend against that collateral. “Enough” is likely the key word. But if you have business or personal accounts with over a couple million (and certainly $10+ million), I would be shocked if someone higher up than a clerk hadn’t personally reached out to you, tried to take you out to coffee, and let you know the perks applicable to your personal situation they can provide you that you can’t find on a website. Sure, they likely weren’t as enticing as SVB’s perks nor as willing to lend to an account that had $0 yesterday and millions the next, but they absolutely will offer personal loans/mortgages against stock compensation on the guarantee you keep your account with them above a certain threshold, etc.

bmmayer1 4y ago

Agreed with this. The story written from Alex's perspective would probably be: "how I blew a once in a lifetime shot to be the best business banker in America but I took the opportunity for granted."

twelve40 4y ago

> chasing our business i see what you did there

gaadd33 4y ago

How could have Chase earned their business better when the person on the account says everything is fine and gets off the phone as fast as possible? I'm pretty sure more phone calls would have soured things. If the author was saying that chase then turned them down for a loan or something, sure that would be comparable.

lmm 4y ago
Give better information by email, something that doesn't interrupt me and make me deal with it right now? Other than that, it's not clear from this story why they chose Silicon Valley Bank - it sounds like this VP of Finance is the person who could explain what (if anything) they did better than Chase.
- manigandham 4y ago
  Most people (especially here) would find those emails to be spam and never read them. Is that seriously your suggestion?
  - lmm 4y ago
    Spammy emails are somewhat annoying, but they're 10x better than spammy phone calls. Any company that wants me to do things over the phone will drop right to the bottom of my list, especially if they want to do it by them calling me rather than me calling them.
re-thc 4y ago
Maybe offer assistance or discounts or anything else? The usual emails of credit cards, better interest on savings (money sat in the account for nothing) or others if it didn't happen? At least from the recount there was no mention of e.g. we realised you're a big customer and we have some special packages for you. Services like AWS would immediate assign an account manager, want to know you more and offer training, assistance and all sorts of things and not just when you make a transfer.
underdeserver 4y ago

stephen_g 4y ago

Yeah, it seems super weird this Alex guy didn't just send them some kind of brochure or information of "These are all the services Chase offers to businesses, give us a call". Also, the implication that the Alex guy was fired or something because a customer decided to switch banks seems to only indicate that Chase has a toxic internal culture. Customers switching banks is not unheard of...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> didn't just send them some kind of brochure or information of "These are all the services Chase offers to businesses, give us a call" It wouldn’t be read and now Alex is spamming him.