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We will see in 2040 if countries who made a different decision has lower carbon footprint. There is seemingly a lot of countries betting that green hydrogen wil

by belorn 4y ago

We will see in 2040 if countries who made a different decision has lower carbon footprint. There is seemingly a lot of countries betting that green hydrogen will become energy storage solution in 20-30-50 years, and thus they can use natural gas/coal while waiting and continue with business as usual. Only time will tell which bets in the energy grid was good and which was bad for the environment. The last bet that many countries did on buying natural gas from Russia ended up being quite bad for Europe.

wkat4242 4y ago
Hydrogen is just as much of a pipe dream IMO. Producing, compressing is all very inefficient and it leaks through its tanks quickly. Which is a real big problem not only because of the energy wasted but because it's a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 is! The bet on buying natural gas was a bad one for the environment for the start obviously, no matter whom we bought it from.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  There's a lot of bad faith pearl clutching over hydrogen, but industry already makes and uses 700 cubic kilometers (if measured at STP) of the gas each year, so obviously the problem of manipulating it is solvable. I read that the cost of a hydrogen pipeline might be about 8% higher than the cost of a natural gas pipeline, per unit of energy transportation capacity.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Most of that gas comes from cracking fossil fuels which is much more efficient. But does contribute to climate change. I just don't see it really solving anything at a large scale. Perhaps for some applications like perhaps airplanes but for many others just using batteries would be a much better option.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      The point is not where the gas comes from, the point is that we have pipes, valves, compressors, sensors, etc. etc. that can handle it. Hand wringing about how the stuff is impossible to work with is just nonsense. Some care is needed with materials. Batteries are of course a better option for short term storage and probably most vehicles. But there are storage use cases where hydrogen is far superior to batteries, such as very long term energy storage.
_hypx 4y ago
Green hydrogen is a good idea, but it doesn't excuse us from coming up with alternatives. We still want more than one solution to tackle the climate change issue.

by belorn 4y ago

wkat4242 4y ago

Hydrogen is just as much of a pipe dream IMO. Producing, compressing is all very inefficient and it leaks through its tanks quickly. Which is a real big problem not only because of the energy wasted but because it's a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 is! The bet on buying natural gas was a bad one for the environment for the start obviously, no matter whom we bought it from.

pfdietz 4y ago
There's a lot of bad faith pearl clutching over hydrogen, but industry already makes and uses 700 cubic kilometers (if measured at STP) of the gas each year, so obviously the problem of manipulating it is solvable. I read that the cost of a hydrogen pipeline might be about 8% higher than the cost of a natural gas pipeline, per unit of energy transportation capacity.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Most of that gas comes from cracking fossil fuels which is much more efficient. But does contribute to climate change. I just don't see it really solving anything at a large scale. Perhaps for some applications like perhaps airplanes but for many others just using batteries would be a much better option.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    The point is not where the gas comes from, the point is that we have pipes, valves, compressors, sensors, etc. etc. that can handle it. Hand wringing about how the stuff is impossible to work with is just nonsense. Some care is needed with materials. Batteries are of course a better option for short term storage and probably most vehicles. But there are storage use cases where hydrogen is far superior to batteries, such as very long term energy storage.

_hypx 4y ago

Green hydrogen is a good idea, but it doesn't excuse us from coming up with alternatives. We still want more than one solution to tackle the climate change issue.