4 ms·

The general problem of "AI"s being trained on copyrighted content needs to be discussed more thoroughly, I think.

noogle 4y ago
The current (legal) answer is "unclear". There are indications that training is fine, but producing and using the generated content is questionable at least. As many IP issues, it will solved only when someone will try that in court and go all the way until a verdict. Some cases are actually being processed but it might take years to get an answer.
- sampo 4y ago
  > The general problem of "AI"s being trained on copyrighted content > The current (legal) answer is "unclear". European Union was ahead of times for once. The 2019 copyright directive, article 4, makes it legal to scrape the web and make and keep local copies of copyrighted works, for data mining purposes. Unless the copyright holders set up a machine readable exception (such as robots.txt file). So legal in EU, "unclear" in US.
  - pklausler 4y ago
    That does not, to me, automatically imply that an "AI" lawfully regurgitating copyrighted content is a "data mining purpose".
    - News-Dog 4y ago
      Consider that an AI may cite many snippets of copyright publications into a chimera of 'Facts'. 'copyright fair use' : https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-fair-use/ https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-fair-use/
  - EamonnMR 4y ago
    Does OpenAI respect Robots.txt? Do we know?
bluefirebrand 4y ago
Every time I bring this up, people accuse me of resisting progress, "the cats out of the bag", etc. It has been frustrating.
- km3r 4y ago
  The cat is out of the bag, and I don't see any reason training should be any more controlled than me personally viewing something and 'training' my brain on it. Using either to duplicate copyrighted works is already clearly illegal.
  - angrais 4y ago
    It is illegal for you to download copyrighted material and distribute it as your own. Models trained on such data can (and are statistically more likely) to produce similar output as their (training) input. So training must consider licencing where copyright material is used and not consume all data. Your brain is not a model. You can not reproduce most of what you see. You're not "training" your brain by glancing at an image as your recall concerning that image will be terrible.
    - antibasilisk 4y ago
      >It is illegal for you to download copyrighted material and distribute it as your own I'm sure the millions of people who violate copyright law daily with absolutely no repercussions care very much about that.
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        Millions of people dont pay taxes and cross the road in the wrong place. You cant setup a cinema and charge ticket for the movies you stole. Its the money making side that matters - not individuals ij a private house
        antibasilisk 4y ago
antibasilisk 4y ago
Copyright's been dead since the internet was born. I really do think it's the least of our problems when it comes to abstract reasoning engines.
anonzzzies 4y ago
I think it’s not very hard; if the AI companies believe the data they trained on is public domain/open because they scraped it of the internet, then their trained weights must publicly available as well. They cannot claim ‘but training is expensive’; if they do, then they should pay fees for the hosting and storage and writing time of all data they scraped. I prefer open weights as it’s more practical. Your weights have a sliver of GPL source in it? Well that infected the entire thing as GPL does: it is ours now too!

The current (legal) answer is "unclear". There are indications that training is fine, but producing and using the generated content is questionable at least. As many IP issues, it will solved only when someone will try that in court and go all the way until a verdict. Some cases are actually being processed but it might take years to get an answer.

sampo 4y ago
> The general problem of "AI"s being trained on copyrighted content > The current (legal) answer is "unclear". European Union was ahead of times for once. The 2019 copyright directive, article 4, makes it legal to scrape the web and make and keep local copies of copyrighted works, for data mining purposes. Unless the copyright holders set up a machine readable exception (such as robots.txt file). So legal in EU, "unclear" in US.
- pklausler 4y ago
  That does not, to me, automatically imply that an "AI" lawfully regurgitating copyrighted content is a "data mining purpose".
  - News-Dog 4y ago
    Consider that an AI may cite many snippets of copyright publications into a chimera of 'Facts'. 'copyright fair use' : https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-fair-use/ https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-fair-use/
- EamonnMR 4y ago
  Does OpenAI respect Robots.txt? Do we know?

bluefirebrand 4y ago

Every time I bring this up, people accuse me of resisting progress, "the cats out of the bag", etc. It has been frustrating.

km3r 4y ago
The cat is out of the bag, and I don't see any reason training should be any more controlled than me personally viewing something and 'training' my brain on it. Using either to duplicate copyrighted works is already clearly illegal.
- angrais 4y ago
  It is illegal for you to download copyrighted material and distribute it as your own. Models trained on such data can (and are statistically more likely) to produce similar output as their (training) input. So training must consider licencing where copyright material is used and not consume all data. Your brain is not a model. You can not reproduce most of what you see. You're not "training" your brain by glancing at an image as your recall concerning that image will be terrible.
  - antibasilisk 4y ago
    >It is illegal for you to download copyrighted material and distribute it as your own I'm sure the millions of people who violate copyright law daily with absolutely no repercussions care very much about that.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      Millions of people dont pay taxes and cross the road in the wrong place. You cant setup a cinema and charge ticket for the movies you stole. Its the money making side that matters - not individuals ij a private house
      - antibasilisk 4y ago

antibasilisk 4y ago

Copyright's been dead since the internet was born. I really do think it's the least of our problems when it comes to abstract reasoning engines.

anonzzzies 4y ago

I think it’s not very hard; if the AI companies believe the data they trained on is public domain/open because they scraped it of the internet, then their trained weights must publicly available as well. They cannot claim ‘but training is expensive’; if they do, then they should pay fees for the hosting and storage and writing time of all data they scraped. I prefer open weights as it’s more practical. Your weights have a sliver of GPL source in it? Well that infected the entire thing as GPL does: it is ours now too!