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Not sure if I am reading you right but are you saying the options are either to go to a FANG or a startup? If so, I'd add startups to the set of places new gra

Not sure if I am reading you right but are you saying the options are either to go to a FANG or a startup? If so, I'd add startups to the set of places new grads should avoid. Assholes are everywhere, so learning to deal with them is essential, but, in my experience(which, arguably, mostly comes from another era), the valley has a lot more assholes per engineer than, say, a small to medium sized company. Not only that, but the valley has an overall social environment which is... unsupportive to many. It is, based on my experience and the general feeling I've encountered talking to coworkers and online folks, a very difficult place to find friends and support. Depending on your role, there are a lot of places that look down on FANG experience. That is going to vary a lot with which part of the SW elephant you work on. My experiences as an embedded SWE who deals a lot with HW folks won't necessarily map to someone doing games or front end web work.

spacemadness 4y ago
Nobody is going to look down on FAANG experience. Come on now.
- 01100011 4y ago
  It comes up regularly on HN(i.e. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20846408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20846408). FAANG folks have high salary expectations, often do not know how to work in a less supportive environment, often possess big egos, and will leave as soon as they're offered another FAANG gig. When I've hired for non-FAANG roles, I hire folks who are going to be a good fit for the team and the company, who demonstrate a good understanding of the work they've done, and whose experience aligns with what the role requires. Coming from a FAANG was neither a benefit nor an asset to me. Now that I've done time in the valley, I think I'd be extra careful to screen toxic folks.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    the FAANG companies are so different from each other, I don't know that stereotyping everyone who is from "one of those companies" is accurate or effective.
    - bunabhucan 4y ago
      FAANG companies are so different from each other ...yet they look so similar when compared as a group to everywhere else.
      - astrange 4y ago
        I've only heard those negative stereotypes about Google and maybe Meta. Doesn't describe Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Microsoft which are all pretty different from each other.
      - andsoitis 4y ago
        > ...yet they look so similar when compared as a group to everywhere else. What point of view? - business model - culture - growth rate - engineering problems - ? Netflix is totally different from Amazon is totally different from Apple, for instance, on almost each of these dimensions.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    "extra careful to screen toxic folks". I like your sentiment, except the scariest toxic people I ever met are very good at hiding it and only show when 100% safe. Only the unsophisticated ones are easy to screen.
- Silhouette 4y ago
  Of course some people do. I know plenty of people view ex-FAANG candidates at least cautiously. Several of those people are now founders/CxOs at reasonably successful tech firms. Career FAANG people tend to have a polarising effect where they can be very good in some areas but have huge blind spots in others. If you don't think this is true then I encourage you to look at the comments any time someone relatively senior coming from outside FAANG asks about being down-levelled when they start. There are always a few slightly too haughty people talking about how that outside experience doesn't translate and a different skill set is needed at high levels in a FAANG-style organisation. That's true - up to a point at least - but it goes both ways.
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  I absolutely do. Many of these companies are already have a disproportional amount of influence in the world and can even exert their influence in the world of politics through lobbyists. As a software developer, I'm 100% ideologically against working for a faang because it gives them even more power.
- stcroixx 4y ago
  I would not even bother interviewing someone with FAANG on their resume at my current company. They’d definitely expect more than I can pay. I’d also assume they would be bored or complain about doing grunt work that can be common in a small company. Many places know they are not top tier, or rather, they’re satisfied with what they get from programmers who work for less.

spacemadness 4y ago

Nobody is going to look down on FAANG experience. Come on now.

01100011 4y ago
It comes up regularly on HN(i.e. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20846408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20846408). FAANG folks have high salary expectations, often do not know how to work in a less supportive environment, often possess big egos, and will leave as soon as they're offered another FAANG gig. When I've hired for non-FAANG roles, I hire folks who are going to be a good fit for the team and the company, who demonstrate a good understanding of the work they've done, and whose experience aligns with what the role requires. Coming from a FAANG was neither a benefit nor an asset to me. Now that I've done time in the valley, I think I'd be extra careful to screen toxic folks.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  the FAANG companies are so different from each other, I don't know that stereotyping everyone who is from "one of those companies" is accurate or effective.
  - bunabhucan 4y ago
    FAANG companies are so different from each other ...yet they look so similar when compared as a group to everywhere else.
    - astrange 4y ago
      I've only heard those negative stereotypes about Google and maybe Meta. Doesn't describe Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Microsoft which are all pretty different from each other.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      > ...yet they look so similar when compared as a group to everywhere else. What point of view? - business model - culture - growth rate - engineering problems - ? Netflix is totally different from Amazon is totally different from Apple, for instance, on almost each of these dimensions.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  "extra careful to screen toxic folks". I like your sentiment, except the scariest toxic people I ever met are very good at hiding it and only show when 100% safe. Only the unsophisticated ones are easy to screen.
Silhouette 4y ago
Of course some people do. I know plenty of people view ex-FAANG candidates at least cautiously. Several of those people are now founders/CxOs at reasonably successful tech firms. Career FAANG people tend to have a polarising effect where they can be very good in some areas but have huge blind spots in others. If you don't think this is true then I encourage you to look at the comments any time someone relatively senior coming from outside FAANG asks about being down-levelled when they start. There are always a few slightly too haughty people talking about how that outside experience doesn't translate and a different skill set is needed at high levels in a FAANG-style organisation. That's true - up to a point at least - but it goes both ways.
throwaway675309 4y ago
I absolutely do. Many of these companies are already have a disproportional amount of influence in the world and can even exert their influence in the world of politics through lobbyists. As a software developer, I'm 100% ideologically against working for a faang because it gives them even more power.
stcroixx 4y ago
I would not even bother interviewing someone with FAANG on their resume at my current company. They’d definitely expect more than I can pay. I’d also assume they would be bored or complain about doing grunt work that can be common in a small company. Many places know they are not top tier, or rather, they’re satisfied with what they get from programmers who work for less.