5 ms·

If you look at the food production industry as a whole in the US, the picture of why funding and effort is not put into fixing nutrition becomes very clear. It

by devmor 4y ago

If you look at the food production industry as a whole in the US, the picture of why funding and effort is not put into fixing nutrition becomes very clear. It's extremely profitable AND nearly risk-proof to run monocrop farms to produce varieties of corn, which can be grown as necessary to sell based on what has higher demand in the current season: sweetener, meal, whole ears, biofuel, cattle feed, etc. It's much less profitable to run a farm full of different types of crops that must be grown, harvested, watered and cared for in different ways - and have 1 or 2 markets at most. If you were to create a venn diagram of the share holding firms in major farming operations compared to the shareholders in major food production companies, it would be very close to a circle. Thus, it's in the best interest (as far as turning short-term profits) of those shareholders to ensure high corn production and high corn use, filling our shelves with high-calorie, low-nutrition products. There are many more tangents to go on that end in a similar "hooray, short-term profits" conclusion. To name a few: Heavily-preserved food that can stay on shelves longer, and thus contains too much sodium. Long commutes and work hours that benefit corporations, resulting in high demand for pre-packaged food that has lost many essential nutrients in its preparation method. High rents and housing costs from real estate speculation leading to people having small, inadequate kitchens and ordering food more.

tomxor 4y ago
Yes, these are all fair points, in a nut shell you could blame market forces and say industry behaviour is inevitable, which is what I was alluding to as the cost function. In other areas where this becomes a problem government intervene to change intensives, e.g the total cost of continuous alcohol consumption is not included in the sticker price, so some governments add a tax, same with tobacco... ideally such taxes would be directed to public spending on the medical costs, but that depends on the country. The same could be done far more broadly with food, not just a mere sugar tax, but taxing foods that are known to be product placements as poor substitutes for a full meal, that are too nutritionally devoid and contain too many substitutes. Just like alcohol, an occasional ready meal or highly refined cake isn't going to kill you or give you chronic disease, in which case it can be expensive to dissuade you from making it a regular thing and disincentivise industry from focusing on producing that type of food..
- devbent 4y ago
  > Just like alcohol, Alcohol fucks with DNA. It is neurotoxic. Let's not lie to ourselves, the safe amount of booze is 0 booze. I'm not saying don't drink, just that we should be 100% honest with ourselves.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    Yes, however it's the consistent consumption of high quantities of alcohol that cause chronic illness, and it's the same behaviour that is problematic in food, this is what diabetes is, sugar ends up being toxic (glucotoxicity). Even short term high sugar intake causes cell stress, it's not as toxic as alcohol, but long term consumption of either is problematic.
    - devbent 4y ago
      You should clarify, refined sugars. There is also the ongoing debate of why the hell consuming white rice, which is instantly broken down into large amounts of glucose, doesn't have the same negative health impact. Lots of investigations around fructose vs glucose and biological pathways of how straight fructose is processed and so on and so forth, but feel free to visit any SE Asian country where rice is well over 50% of meals by volume and obesity levels are low. I read a good series of investigative articles that posited it is contamination of our food supply from one or more unknown sources that explains why a diet consisting of highly processed food causes more chronic health conditions than a diet consisting of fresh foods even if the macro nutrient content is the same. (Wish I had bookmarked it...)
      - esperent 4y ago
        > feel free to visit any SE Asian country where rice is well over 50% of meals by volume and obesity levels are low. Hello from a SE Asian country. Not much obesity here. Huge amount of diabetes though. I've heard it's genetic - European and African ancestry puts on fat externally, while Asians tend to store fat internally (visceral fat) which is invisible but just as dangerous.
devbent 4y ago
Corn syrup has rapidly been vanishing from foods based on consumer demand. A decade ago buying bread without corn syrup in it was a challenge, now days all but the cheapest bread in stores proudly had "no corn syrup!" printed on the label. > leading to people having small, inadequate kitchens and ordering food more. Friend of mine has been undergoing a kitchen remodel and cooking for a family of 4 using a plug in induction burner for the last 5 or 6 months. Historically kitchens were small and families were big. Outside of kitchens that only have a microwave, even a small 2 burner range will suffice, although it will strongly limit what dishes can be prepared in reasonable time. > thus contains too much sodium Sodium is an often blamed boogie man, but undeservedly so. Outside of people with chronic health conditions, it is really hard to intake so much sodium such that it has a negative impact on health. The problems in the US food supply are likely a lot more subtle and nuanced than too much fat or salt. People have been eating salted fatty cuts of meat for thousands of years w/o the health problems we see now days.
- AmVess 4y ago
  You are completely wrong about corny syrup and sodium.

by devmor 4y ago

tomxor 4y ago

Yes, these are all fair points, in a nut shell you could blame market forces and say industry behaviour is inevitable, which is what I was alluding to as the cost function. In other areas where this becomes a problem government intervene to change intensives, e.g the total cost of continuous alcohol consumption is not included in the sticker price, so some governments add a tax, same with tobacco... ideally such taxes would be directed to public spending on the medical costs, but that depends on the country. The same could be done far more broadly with food, not just a mere sugar tax, but taxing foods that are known to be product placements as poor substitutes for a full meal, that are too nutritionally devoid and contain too many substitutes. Just like alcohol, an occasional ready meal or highly refined cake isn't going to kill you or give you chronic disease, in which case it can be expensive to dissuade you from making it a regular thing and disincentivise industry from focusing on producing that type of food..

devbent 4y ago
> Just like alcohol, Alcohol fucks with DNA. It is neurotoxic. Let's not lie to ourselves, the safe amount of booze is 0 booze. I'm not saying don't drink, just that we should be 100% honest with ourselves.
- tomxor 4y ago
  Yes, however it's the consistent consumption of high quantities of alcohol that cause chronic illness, and it's the same behaviour that is problematic in food, this is what diabetes is, sugar ends up being toxic (glucotoxicity). Even short term high sugar intake causes cell stress, it's not as toxic as alcohol, but long term consumption of either is problematic.
  - devbent 4y ago
    You should clarify, refined sugars. There is also the ongoing debate of why the hell consuming white rice, which is instantly broken down into large amounts of glucose, doesn't have the same negative health impact. Lots of investigations around fructose vs glucose and biological pathways of how straight fructose is processed and so on and so forth, but feel free to visit any SE Asian country where rice is well over 50% of meals by volume and obesity levels are low. I read a good series of investigative articles that posited it is contamination of our food supply from one or more unknown sources that explains why a diet consisting of highly processed food causes more chronic health conditions than a diet consisting of fresh foods even if the macro nutrient content is the same. (Wish I had bookmarked it...)
    - esperent 4y ago
      > feel free to visit any SE Asian country where rice is well over 50% of meals by volume and obesity levels are low. Hello from a SE Asian country. Not much obesity here. Huge amount of diabetes though. I've heard it's genetic - European and African ancestry puts on fat externally, while Asians tend to store fat internally (visceral fat) which is invisible but just as dangerous.

devbent 4y ago

Corn syrup has rapidly been vanishing from foods based on consumer demand. A decade ago buying bread without corn syrup in it was a challenge, now days all but the cheapest bread in stores proudly had "no corn syrup!" printed on the label. > leading to people having small, inadequate kitchens and ordering food more. Friend of mine has been undergoing a kitchen remodel and cooking for a family of 4 using a plug in induction burner for the last 5 or 6 months. Historically kitchens were small and families were big. Outside of kitchens that only have a microwave, even a small 2 burner range will suffice, although it will strongly limit what dishes can be prepared in reasonable time. > thus contains too much sodium Sodium is an often blamed boogie man, but undeservedly so. Outside of people with chronic health conditions, it is really hard to intake so much sodium such that it has a negative impact on health. The problems in the US food supply are likely a lot more subtle and nuanced than too much fat or salt. People have been eating salted fatty cuts of meat for thousands of years w/o the health problems we see now days.

AmVess 4y ago
You are completely wrong about corny syrup and sodium.