2 ms·

US can just go back to normal historic policy and be open to immigration. That was it's growth engine in the past and can make it recover within years if proper

by alecco 18y ago

US can just go back to normal historic policy and be open to immigration. That was it's growth engine in the past and can make it recover within years if properly regulated (i.e. make them pay taxes and slowly earn privileges.) But suburban mild racism is in the way.

petercooper 18y ago
It's not racism (thought it used to be - US immigration policies regarding "Orientals" were shocking at one point). If it were racial then it'd be ridiculously easy for western Europeans to emigrate to the US - and it's not. I've wanted to move to the US for a few years now. However, like you, I've wondered why immigration isn't being discussed as a serious solution to our economic problems - so good one for bringing it up.
- alecco 18y ago
  I am Latino and had to suffer US border checks many times. To be fair, on the last couple of times the immigration officers were very friendly, while the customs and (Homeland Security) ones were worse than ever. Uneducated bigots are the norm. Let me tell you the last one. A customs officer started speaking to me in Cartman-Spanish (after a brief exchange in English) making a whole scene in front of about 50 people queuing behind me. After a while my patience was gone and I answered loudly "I'm very sorry but you don't speak Spanish and I cannot understand what you want. You are speaking in infinitive and skipping words, so it isn't clear if you are asking where I've been, where am I going to be, or the reason of my stay. Migrations didn't have a problem, so either check my luggage or let me go." At that point it was 50-50 he would kick me back out, but I guess the dirty looks he got from the people in the queue convinced him to just let me get through. I don't even look Latino and had a valid visa right there in my passport. What my friends, relatives, and fellow Latinos go through is nauseating, like the occasional cavity search. It is very ironic this happens often in states named in our Language. So trust me, it is racism.
  - petercooper 18y ago
    There is undeniably racism involved in border crossings and with the authorities in general. There are "checkpoints" in the south of US border states where many are discriminated against. I believe what you say. My point, however, is on the immigration policy rather than enforcement. I do not believe American immigration policies are racist. They're protectionist and potentially xenophobic but otherwise equal black and white citizens of the same country have the same chance to migrate to the US.
  - hugh 18y ago
    Well I'm perfectly white and I still get randomly treated like a jerk by the various US border agencies, so relax. Also, in this story: Let me tell you the last one. A customs officer started speaking to me in Cartman-Spanish (after a brief exchange in English) making a whole scene in front of about 50 people queuing behind me. After a while my patience was gone and I answered loudly "I'm very sorry but you don't speak Spanish and I cannot understand what you want. You are speaking in infinitive and skipping words, so it isn't clear if you are asking where I've been, where am I going to be, or the reason of my stay. Migrations didn't have a problem, so either check my luggage or let me go." At that point it was 50-50 he would kick me back out, but I guess the dirty looks he got from the people in the queue convinced him to just let me get through. it seems like the only person acting like a jerk is you. All he's trying to do is speak in Spanish, and you went and made fun of him for it.
    - olefoo 18y ago
      The funny thing about racial privilege is how hard it is to see when one is the beneficiary of it.
    - alecco 18y ago
      (Did you need to call me "a jerk"?) OK, I'll bite... Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on the "making a scene" part and didn't explicitly put he was asking about things out of his sphere. He was talking in a very aggressive tone in Spanish after he saw I could speak English fluently, after I showed him both my European and US visas, and after I explained it was a trip to my employer's HQ. He wasn't saying "como esta amigo", he was asking random questions that didn't make any sense related to migrations and completely unrelated to customs. I've been many times through different airports in US and never a customs officer asked me those questions. Specially in front of other people. It went on for at least 10 minutes while people were almost walking by in the other queue (including a friend of mine who had to wait and later told me he was thinking in calling the office for help.) I was the only one stopped out of dozens of people, just after he noticed my passport was from south of the border. At that point I decided I rather get rejected from US and perhaps lose my job. And you know, if US rejects your visa, for whatever reason, you never get another one again. Luckily most people present clearly thought the guy was out of line. This random uneducated guy on a power trip surprised me because it happened just a few minutes after maybe the nicest migrations interview I ever had (we even talked about football and his recent holidays in South America while we had to wait for a software reboot of some kind.) This is why I put the "to be fair" disclaimer on migrations vs. Customs and TSA/Homeland Security. Normal in exchange with customs on every other country in the world: * In the most common case you just walk. * Second most common, one question: Something to declare? * Worst possible case, rare: Can you please take your luggage over here?

by alecco 18y ago

petercooper 18y ago

It's not racism (thought it used to be - US immigration policies regarding "Orientals" were shocking at one point). If it were racial then it'd be ridiculously easy for western Europeans to emigrate to the US - and it's not. I've wanted to move to the US for a few years now. However, like you, I've wondered why immigration isn't being discussed as a serious solution to our economic problems - so good one for bringing it up.

alecco 18y ago
I am Latino and had to suffer US border checks many times. To be fair, on the last couple of times the immigration officers were very friendly, while the customs and (Homeland Security) ones were worse than ever. Uneducated bigots are the norm. Let me tell you the last one. A customs officer started speaking to me in Cartman-Spanish (after a brief exchange in English) making a whole scene in front of about 50 people queuing behind me. After a while my patience was gone and I answered loudly "I'm very sorry but you don't speak Spanish and I cannot understand what you want. You are speaking in infinitive and skipping words, so it isn't clear if you are asking where I've been, where am I going to be, or the reason of my stay. Migrations didn't have a problem, so either check my luggage or let me go." At that point it was 50-50 he would kick me back out, but I guess the dirty looks he got from the people in the queue convinced him to just let me get through. I don't even look Latino and had a valid visa right there in my passport. What my friends, relatives, and fellow Latinos go through is nauseating, like the occasional cavity search. It is very ironic this happens often in states named in our Language. So trust me, it is racism.
- petercooper 18y ago
  There is undeniably racism involved in border crossings and with the authorities in general. There are "checkpoints" in the south of US border states where many are discriminated against. I believe what you say. My point, however, is on the immigration policy rather than enforcement. I do not believe American immigration policies are racist. They're protectionist and potentially xenophobic but otherwise equal black and white citizens of the same country have the same chance to migrate to the US.
- hugh 18y ago
  Well I'm perfectly white and I still get randomly treated like a jerk by the various US border agencies, so relax. Also, in this story: Let me tell you the last one. A customs officer started speaking to me in Cartman-Spanish (after a brief exchange in English) making a whole scene in front of about 50 people queuing behind me. After a while my patience was gone and I answered loudly "I'm very sorry but you don't speak Spanish and I cannot understand what you want. You are speaking in infinitive and skipping words, so it isn't clear if you are asking where I've been, where am I going to be, or the reason of my stay. Migrations didn't have a problem, so either check my luggage or let me go." At that point it was 50-50 he would kick me back out, but I guess the dirty looks he got from the people in the queue convinced him to just let me get through. it seems like the only person acting like a jerk is you. All he's trying to do is speak in Spanish, and you went and made fun of him for it.
  - olefoo 18y ago
    The funny thing about racial privilege is how hard it is to see when one is the beneficiary of it.
  - alecco 18y ago
    (Did you need to call me "a jerk"?) OK, I'll bite... Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on the "making a scene" part and didn't explicitly put he was asking about things out of his sphere. He was talking in a very aggressive tone in Spanish after he saw I could speak English fluently, after I showed him both my European and US visas, and after I explained it was a trip to my employer's HQ. He wasn't saying "como esta amigo", he was asking random questions that didn't make any sense related to migrations and completely unrelated to customs. I've been many times through different airports in US and never a customs officer asked me those questions. Specially in front of other people. It went on for at least 10 minutes while people were almost walking by in the other queue (including a friend of mine who had to wait and later told me he was thinking in calling the office for help.) I was the only one stopped out of dozens of people, just after he noticed my passport was from south of the border. At that point I decided I rather get rejected from US and perhaps lose my job. And you know, if US rejects your visa, for whatever reason, you never get another one again. Luckily most people present clearly thought the guy was out of line. This random uneducated guy on a power trip surprised me because it happened just a few minutes after maybe the nicest migrations interview I ever had (we even talked about football and his recent holidays in South America while we had to wait for a software reboot of some kind.) This is why I put the "to be fair" disclaimer on migrations vs. Customs and TSA/Homeland Security. Normal in exchange with customs on every other country in the world: * In the most common case you just walk. * Second most common, one question: Something to declare? * Worst possible case, rare: Can you please take your luggage over here?