5 ms·

Yeah, but I kind of want my diagnostician to be obsoleted by orders of magnitude.

xena 4y ago
A human can be held accountable for making mistakes and killing someone. A large language model has no concept of guilt and cannot be held accountable for making what we consider a mistake that leads to someone's death.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  We can hold those operating or training the AI model accountable.
- Kaibeezy 4y ago
  At a some degree of success, I will take the risk. The contract will probably offer it.
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    I agree. My guess is that the hospital will have to get a mandatory insurance. Let's wait until the insurance for AI is cheaper than paying a human. The advantage of human are: * They can give a bushtit explanation of why they made a mistake. My guess is that in the future AI will gain introspection and/or learn to bushtit excuses. * You can hang them in the public square (or send them to jail). Sometimes the family and/or the press want someone to blame. This is more difficult to solve and will need a cultural change or the creation of Scapegoats as a Service.
- burnished 4y ago
  Well, the kinds of things we hold people responsible for are errors from negligence and malicious errors. The reasons people do stuff like that is complicated but I think boils down to being limited agents trying to fulfill a complex set of needs. So where does guilt come in? Its not like you expect a band saw to feel guilt, and its unclear how that would improve the tool.
- lynx23 4y ago
  The chance of a doctor being held accountable for the medical errors they make is lower then you might expect. I could tell you a story about that. Lost my eyesight at the age of 5 because I happened to meet the wrong doctor at the wrong time, and was abused for his personal experimentation needs. No consequences, simply because high ranking people are more protected then you would hope.
  - chordalkeyboard 4y ago
    The chance of a machine being held accountable is zero as the concept is inapplicable.
    - Workaccount2 4y ago
      It will have to payout of its blockchain wallet that naturally it will have. /s
    - lynx23 4y ago
      Medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US at least. Given that data, I am assuming the chances of a human being held accountable for their errors in medicine is also almost zero. It might not be ccompletely zero, but I think the difference is effectively negligible.
      - chordalkeyboard 4y ago
        > I think the difference is effectively negligible. The difference is categorical, humans are responsible whether they are held to account or not. An automated system effectively dissipates this responsibility over a system such that it is inherently impossible to hold any human accountable for the error, regardless of desire.
      - Tozen 4y ago
        Many have no idea about this. Medical error, is right there behind cancer and heart attacks. But there is way too much shoulder shrugging when it happens. Then on to the next.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Humans making decisions in high stakes situations do so in a context where responsibility is intentionally diffuse to a point where it is practically impossible to hold someone accountable except picking someone at random as a scapegoat in situations where "something" needs to be done. Killing people with AI is only a lateral move.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  I'd much prefer a lower chance of dying to more accountability for whoever is responsible but higher chance.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  What's the difference between suing your doctor's liability insurance and suing your AI's liability insurance?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  The third leading cause of death is medical error in the US. It doesn't really look like doctors are being held accountable for their mistakes to me. Which isn't to say that they even should, really. It's complicated. You don't want a doctor to be so afraid of making a mistake that they do nothing, after all.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Doctors are only held accountable when they do somthing negligent or something that they "should have known" was wrong. That's a pretty hard thing to prove in a field like medicine where there are very few absolutes. "Amputated the wrong limb" is one thing, but "misdiagnosed my condition as something else with very similar symptoms" is the more common case and also the case where it's difficult to attribute fault.
- SanderNL 4y ago
  The owner/operator of said machine can and will.
afavour 4y ago
An AI trained on the past work of diagnosticians doesn't really render diagnosticians obsolete.

xena 4y ago

A human can be held accountable for making mistakes and killing someone. A large language model has no concept of guilt and cannot be held accountable for making what we consider a mistake that leads to someone's death.

mschuster91 4y ago
We can hold those operating or training the AI model accountable.
Kaibeezy 4y ago
At a some degree of success, I will take the risk. The contract will probably offer it.
- gus_massa 4y ago
  I agree. My guess is that the hospital will have to get a mandatory insurance. Let's wait until the insurance for AI is cheaper than paying a human. The advantage of human are: * They can give a bushtit explanation of why they made a mistake. My guess is that in the future AI will gain introspection and/or learn to bushtit excuses. * You can hang them in the public square (or send them to jail). Sometimes the family and/or the press want someone to blame. This is more difficult to solve and will need a cultural change or the creation of Scapegoats as a Service.
burnished 4y ago
Well, the kinds of things we hold people responsible for are errors from negligence and malicious errors. The reasons people do stuff like that is complicated but I think boils down to being limited agents trying to fulfill a complex set of needs. So where does guilt come in? Its not like you expect a band saw to feel guilt, and its unclear how that would improve the tool.
lynx23 4y ago
The chance of a doctor being held accountable for the medical errors they make is lower then you might expect. I could tell you a story about that. Lost my eyesight at the age of 5 because I happened to meet the wrong doctor at the wrong time, and was abused for his personal experimentation needs. No consequences, simply because high ranking people are more protected then you would hope.
- chordalkeyboard 4y ago
  The chance of a machine being held accountable is zero as the concept is inapplicable.
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    It will have to payout of its blockchain wallet that naturally it will have. /s
  - lynx23 4y ago
    Medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US at least. Given that data, I am assuming the chances of a human being held accountable for their errors in medicine is also almost zero. It might not be ccompletely zero, but I think the difference is effectively negligible.
    - chordalkeyboard 4y ago
      > I think the difference is effectively negligible. The difference is categorical, humans are responsible whether they are held to account or not. An automated system effectively dissipates this responsibility over a system such that it is inherently impossible to hold any human accountable for the error, regardless of desire.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      Many have no idea about this. Medical error, is right there behind cancer and heart attacks. But there is way too much shoulder shrugging when it happens. Then on to the next.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Humans making decisions in high stakes situations do so in a context where responsibility is intentionally diffuse to a point where it is practically impossible to hold someone accountable except picking someone at random as a scapegoat in situations where "something" needs to be done. Killing people with AI is only a lateral move.
Tenoke 4y ago
I'd much prefer a lower chance of dying to more accountability for whoever is responsible but higher chance.
sebzim4500 4y ago
What's the difference between suing your doctor's liability insurance and suing your AI's liability insurance?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
The third leading cause of death is medical error in the US. It doesn't really look like doctors are being held accountable for their mistakes to me. Which isn't to say that they even should, really. It's complicated. You don't want a doctor to be so afraid of making a mistake that they do nothing, after all.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Doctors are only held accountable when they do somthing negligent or something that they "should have known" was wrong. That's a pretty hard thing to prove in a field like medicine where there are very few absolutes. "Amputated the wrong limb" is one thing, but "misdiagnosed my condition as something else with very similar symptoms" is the more common case and also the case where it's difficult to attribute fault.
SanderNL 4y ago
The owner/operator of said machine can and will.

afavour 4y ago

An AI trained on the past work of diagnosticians doesn't really render diagnosticians obsolete.