4 ms·

The middle manager thinks, "the time and effort I spend on my job can be automated, yay!", never considering the second order effects.

reaperducer 4y ago
The middle manager thinks, "the time and effort I spend on my job can be automated, yay!", never considering the second order effects. This is why when a cashier at the supermarket tells me that instead of waiting in line I can use the self check-out lanes, I tell her "I don't want to help a robot take away your job." Usually they don't understand. But sometimes you can see them start to think about what's happening.
- phphphphp 4y ago
  The cashier would rather you leave them in peace than hit them with the same tiresome self-congratulatory remark they hear day in day out. Please use the self checkouts instead.
  - paganel 4y ago
    Please don't use the checkout, why should corporations worth billions and tens of billions (I guess that's what Walmart is worth) get to outsource some of their work onto their clients?
    - skidd0 4y ago
      As a client, using the self-checkout is (usually) a choice I get to make. I choose to use the self-checkout because it is often faster than waiting in a line. I am thankful for the opportunity to put in my own effort in exchange for faster completion and reduced prices.
      - noduerme 4y ago
        it's only faster because they fired half the employees and the other lanes are backed up.
      - triceratops 4y ago
        I remember reading a study somewhere that the self-checkout isn't actually faster. It feels faster because you're busy instead of passively standing in line.
        yencabulator 4y ago
        That depends on the implementation. E.g. Sam's Club lets you scan items as you put them into your cart and just walk past the registers. In the local grocery store at rush hour, cashier lines are long and self-checkout tends to be quicker for buying 3 items. Taking a whole cart into self-checkout is slower than a cashier, because the self-checkout has like a 5% chance per item of going into "assistance needed" mode.
    - adrianmonk 4y ago
      What's important to me is my time. I don't care whether it's spent scanning things myself or waiting in line for someone else to scan them. I also don't care about punishing Walmart, so whether they "get to" do something is totally uninteresting to me. I just want to pay for my items and get out of the store, in whatever way works.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      This is nearly getting to the point of "don't use shovel's, think of all the ditch diggers we'll put out of work" I find places with scan as you shop apps way better than waiting in a checkout line. I get a running total of what I have in the cart, and when I'm done, I just leave without a line.
    - danaris 4y ago
      At least 9 times out of 10, the self-checkout is a better experience for me. I can scan things at my own pace, pack them in my bags the way I like, and listen to my D&D podcast rather than having to interact with a stranger, unless the system acts up. As pxl97 said, I preferred being able to scan things as I shopped and not have to stop at the checkout except to pay, but the one place around here that had that discontinued it a few months ago. We need to push back hard against the idea that automation is "stealing" people's jobs; the promise of automation has always been that of more money for less work. We need to remind everyone of that, and reverse the trend of automation simply putting more and more money in the pockets of the already-wealthy at everyone else's expense.
    - bharathyes 4y ago
      also why benefit large corporations by walking around long aisles comparing and choosing items, carying them around and walk back to the entrance? get those good old shopkeepers to do it while you stand with your list out front.
    - dymk 4y ago
      I can do self-checkout about 5x faster than the clerk can
    - rayusher 4y ago
      I saw on tiktok (yeah I know) where a lawyer says they never use it because you can be liable for stealing for anything you forgot scan. I never use it cause occasionally the cashier will let you know that there is a coupon for something you are purchasing.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    You mean to tell me that my joke that I should get the item for free when it doesn't ring up; you mean to tell me I'm not hilarious and that the cashier's heard it before?
- babyshake 4y ago
  I do want a robot to take their job. I also want us to ensure that everyone does have a fulfilling, non-robotic job available to them. I think those cashiers would happier, say, painting a mural on the wall of the grocery store. Of course, this gets into UBI territory and making sure that as a society we are not just replacing menial jobs to then abandon the people who would have had those jobs.
zamnos 4y ago
Fortunately for middle and line managers, the vaunted 1:1 hasn't been automated yet, nor does it scale, so the technology doesn't allow managers to have more than, say, 60 direct report effectively. Meeting with each of them for 1 hour every other week only leaves 20 hours every other week for work that isn't a 1:1. I think middle management will be safe for a little while longer.
- indymike 4y ago
  Why is meeting with direct reports needed every other week?
  - Swizec 4y ago
    Less frequent than that and people start forgetting the gripes and inconveniences they need help with. Managers are supposed to work on the system, at least in theory. 1on1’s are for the manager like server metrics are for the SRE. An early warning system of future problems. Ideally you can fix issues before the problem blows up into an alarm.
    - indymike 4y ago
      > 1on1’s are for the manager like server metrics are for the SRE. I'm not sure that is accurate. As a manager, I have a bunch of production metrics on my people. I can tell who's getting work done, who isn't, who has high defect rates in their work, who makes fewer defects, who is positive ROI, and who is not paying their keep. Where the one on ones are useful is when they are informed by the metrics, and those conversations don't take anywhere near one hour every two weeks. They take 10 minutes - 15 minutes, max.
      - Swizec 4y ago
        Ok sure but there’s more to people than raw output numbers. Where do you get info on how they’re doing as people? Whether they’re pulling 12 hour days and that’s why the output looks good or they’re happy as a clam living their best life and that’s why output is great? Sometimes you gotta kick people to go take a vacation lest their mind/body takes an unplanned vacation for them. Even if the raw numbers are looking great. You’d prefer to have a planned outage wouldn’t you? And hey, if you don’t need a full hour, it’s okay to make 1on1s shorter! Few people will complain about getting more time back in their lives. But be warned: The good stuff usually comes out 5min before the end of a meeting when an employee says ”Oh yeah one more thing that’s been on my mind …”. It takes time to relax into that area of concern that’s a little scary to bring up.
IMTDb 4y ago
And the good middle manager (yes, they exist ! and yes, they are useful !) thinks "the not very useful part of my job can be automated, yay more time for the actually interesting/useful thing !"
- babyshake 4y ago
  Realistically, the middle manager thinks, "the part of my job where it looks like I'm doing something can be automated, yay more time for 3-4 day weekends!"
brokenmachine 4y ago
I would be ecstatic if I could automate my entire job!

reaperducer 4y ago

The middle manager thinks, "the time and effort I spend on my job can be automated, yay!", never considering the second order effects. This is why when a cashier at the supermarket tells me that instead of waiting in line I can use the self check-out lanes, I tell her "I don't want to help a robot take away your job." Usually they don't understand. But sometimes you can see them start to think about what's happening.

phphphphp 4y ago
The cashier would rather you leave them in peace than hit them with the same tiresome self-congratulatory remark they hear day in day out. Please use the self checkouts instead.
- paganel 4y ago
  Please don't use the checkout, why should corporations worth billions and tens of billions (I guess that's what Walmart is worth) get to outsource some of their work onto their clients?
  - skidd0 4y ago
    As a client, using the self-checkout is (usually) a choice I get to make. I choose to use the self-checkout because it is often faster than waiting in a line. I am thankful for the opportunity to put in my own effort in exchange for faster completion and reduced prices.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      it's only faster because they fired half the employees and the other lanes are backed up.
    - triceratops 4y ago
      I remember reading a study somewhere that the self-checkout isn't actually faster. It feels faster because you're busy instead of passively standing in line.
      - yencabulator 4y ago
        That depends on the implementation. E.g. Sam's Club lets you scan items as you put them into your cart and just walk past the registers. In the local grocery store at rush hour, cashier lines are long and self-checkout tends to be quicker for buying 3 items. Taking a whole cart into self-checkout is slower than a cashier, because the self-checkout has like a 5% chance per item of going into "assistance needed" mode.
  - adrianmonk 4y ago
    What's important to me is my time. I don't care whether it's spent scanning things myself or waiting in line for someone else to scan them. I also don't care about punishing Walmart, so whether they "get to" do something is totally uninteresting to me. I just want to pay for my items and get out of the store, in whatever way works.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    This is nearly getting to the point of "don't use shovel's, think of all the ditch diggers we'll put out of work" I find places with scan as you shop apps way better than waiting in a checkout line. I get a running total of what I have in the cart, and when I'm done, I just leave without a line.
  - danaris 4y ago
    At least 9 times out of 10, the self-checkout is a better experience for me. I can scan things at my own pace, pack them in my bags the way I like, and listen to my D&D podcast rather than having to interact with a stranger, unless the system acts up. As pxl97 said, I preferred being able to scan things as I shopped and not have to stop at the checkout except to pay, but the one place around here that had that discontinued it a few months ago. We need to push back hard against the idea that automation is "stealing" people's jobs; the promise of automation has always been that of more money for less work. We need to remind everyone of that, and reverse the trend of automation simply putting more and more money in the pockets of the already-wealthy at everyone else's expense.
  - bharathyes 4y ago
    also why benefit large corporations by walking around long aisles comparing and choosing items, carying them around and walk back to the entrance? get those good old shopkeepers to do it while you stand with your list out front.
  - dymk 4y ago
    I can do self-checkout about 5x faster than the clerk can
  - rayusher 4y ago
    I saw on tiktok (yeah I know) where a lawyer says they never use it because you can be liable for stealing for anything you forgot scan. I never use it cause occasionally the cashier will let you know that there is a coupon for something you are purchasing.
- zamnos 4y ago
  You mean to tell me that my joke that I should get the item for free when it doesn't ring up; you mean to tell me I'm not hilarious and that the cashier's heard it before?
babyshake 4y ago
I do want a robot to take their job. I also want us to ensure that everyone does have a fulfilling, non-robotic job available to them. I think those cashiers would happier, say, painting a mural on the wall of the grocery store. Of course, this gets into UBI territory and making sure that as a society we are not just replacing menial jobs to then abandon the people who would have had those jobs.

zamnos 4y ago

Fortunately for middle and line managers, the vaunted 1:1 hasn't been automated yet, nor does it scale, so the technology doesn't allow managers to have more than, say, 60 direct report effectively. Meeting with each of them for 1 hour every other week only leaves 20 hours every other week for work that isn't a 1:1. I think middle management will be safe for a little while longer.

indymike 4y ago
Why is meeting with direct reports needed every other week?
- Swizec 4y ago
  Less frequent than that and people start forgetting the gripes and inconveniences they need help with. Managers are supposed to work on the system, at least in theory. 1on1’s are for the manager like server metrics are for the SRE. An early warning system of future problems. Ideally you can fix issues before the problem blows up into an alarm.
  - indymike 4y ago
    > 1on1’s are for the manager like server metrics are for the SRE. I'm not sure that is accurate. As a manager, I have a bunch of production metrics on my people. I can tell who's getting work done, who isn't, who has high defect rates in their work, who makes fewer defects, who is positive ROI, and who is not paying their keep. Where the one on ones are useful is when they are informed by the metrics, and those conversations don't take anywhere near one hour every two weeks. They take 10 minutes - 15 minutes, max.
    - Swizec 4y ago
      Ok sure but there’s more to people than raw output numbers. Where do you get info on how they’re doing as people? Whether they’re pulling 12 hour days and that’s why the output looks good or they’re happy as a clam living their best life and that’s why output is great? Sometimes you gotta kick people to go take a vacation lest their mind/body takes an unplanned vacation for them. Even if the raw numbers are looking great. You’d prefer to have a planned outage wouldn’t you? And hey, if you don’t need a full hour, it’s okay to make 1on1s shorter! Few people will complain about getting more time back in their lives. But be warned: The good stuff usually comes out 5min before the end of a meeting when an employee says ”Oh yeah one more thing that’s been on my mind …”. It takes time to relax into that area of concern that’s a little scary to bring up.

IMTDb 4y ago

And the good middle manager (yes, they exist ! and yes, they are useful !) thinks "the not very useful part of my job can be automated, yay more time for the actually interesting/useful thing !"

babyshake 4y ago
Realistically, the middle manager thinks, "the part of my job where it looks like I'm doing something can be automated, yay more time for 3-4 day weekends!"

brokenmachine 4y ago

I would be ecstatic if I could automate my entire job!