4 ms·

It's not white hot like it was 1-3 years ago, but if you're qualified and experienced, yes there very much is still demand from non-FAANG companies.

dangwhy 4y ago
taking 50% paycut isn't easy.
- hylaride 4y ago
  The way FAANG stocks have performed, you've already taken that if you work for one considering how much of their total comp tended to be RSUs (with the exception of apple).
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    Facebook gave out refreshers and bonuses even this review cycle.
andsoitis 4y ago
While that might be true: a) the technical challenges at these large tech companies are probably way more interesting b) compensation is very likely better c) you are working with many many more peers who are super talented
- dx034 4y ago
  Aren't technical challenges at smaller companies usually much more interesting? Pay is worse, but smaller companies usually offer much more freedom to implement your ideas and shape the company.
  - rattlesnakedave 4y ago
    It depends on what you mean by "smaller." At the majority of smaller companies, it's just CRUD app stuff, probably in C#, with significantly less freedom (often beholden to very non technical middle management).
    - itsoktocry 4y ago
      >At the majority of smaller companies, it's just CRUD app stuff, probably in C#, with significantly less freedom This is a very strange point-of-view. I've worked in "small" (~100 employees or fewer) business my entire career, and not once was it strictly CRUD stuff in C#. The freedom is debatable, I guess, since I have no experience at larger companies, but I certainly never found that my freedom is confined. Most often there is opportunity to contribute anywhere and everywhere, and management is happy to have the help.
      - quacked 4y ago
        I'm not a dev but still highly technical, and devs turning their noses up at "CRUD stuff" always makes me laugh. It reminds me of the musicians I know who won't play in certain styles because it's not "meaningful" or "true to their artistic vision". Bud I was at your last gig, you don't sound that great even when you're playing "meaningful" music. Similarly, most of the devs I've worked with that are obsessed with "exciting" work still turn out pretty questionable stuff, and their careers would probably be better served if the built out a "simple" CRUD app, took it really seriously, and then examined the effects of their design on other teams.
    - dx034 4y ago
      Is that bad? You can solve interesting challenges in C# with CRUD stuff. Nothing that scales to millions of users, but there are challenges other than scaling.
    - rewgs 4y ago
      I'm the sole developer at a non-tech company, and I have near-complete freedom because management is non-technical (and humble enough to admit that). I really, really enjoy my current job. Not saying that's the norm, of course -- just adding a data point to the convo.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    > smaller companies usually offer much more freedom to implement your ideas Not really, if I come up with a novel algorithm or a different architecture to do a task better at Google then they will give me the chance to implement it even if it takes months or years. Small companies doesn't care about your ideas, they just want a cog that can give them a basic website because that is all they need, novel things doesn't help them. If you mean "novel product ideas" then sure, but we aren't product managers we are programmers so our ideas would mostly be related to architecture or algorithms.
    - dx034 4y ago
      Then you've been at different small companies than I have. Obviously if you're the only person in tech at that company it's hard to do groundbreaking stuff. But small tech companies solve challenges everyday. And being able to directly convince the CEO (who is often technical at these companies) can make decisions much quicker than at large companies.
      - Jensson 4y ago
        > small tech companies solve challenges everyday Yes, just not challenges that requires ideas to solve. They are mostly just following the same path every other tech company went, re implementing the same systems. To them it doesn't matter if the system is better or worse, they just want a system since going from 0 to 1 is huge, meaning that they wont give you time or resources to implement your idea, they just want a cheap idea.
- bumby 4y ago
  The technical challenges may be interesting, but are the strategic ones? I.e., do you think most people would choose to work on problems that optimize ad spend vs. something like, say, healthcare if all else was equal?
  - HEmanZ 4y ago
    Why work on ad optimization when you can work on insurance billing optimization?
    - bumby 4y ago
      haha point taken. I would argue "insurance" isn't "healthcare". But this somewhat underscores my larger point. The SV mindset is almost solely focused on maximizing revenue, whether that's ads or insurance billing. My point is that there are other, possibly more interesting, problems to work on if you relax that constrained viewpoint.
- samrocksc 4y ago
  None of these are really factual points. Big Shops are place where you just get stuck being a YAML jockey and bantering in RFCs.

dangwhy 4y ago

taking 50% paycut isn't easy.

hylaride 4y ago
The way FAANG stocks have performed, you've already taken that if you work for one considering how much of their total comp tended to be RSUs (with the exception of apple).
- dangwhy 4y ago
  Facebook gave out refreshers and bonuses even this review cycle.

andsoitis 4y ago

While that might be true: a) the technical challenges at these large tech companies are probably way more interesting b) compensation is very likely better c) you are working with many many more peers who are super talented

dx034 4y ago
Aren't technical challenges at smaller companies usually much more interesting? Pay is worse, but smaller companies usually offer much more freedom to implement your ideas and shape the company.
- rattlesnakedave 4y ago
  It depends on what you mean by "smaller." At the majority of smaller companies, it's just CRUD app stuff, probably in C#, with significantly less freedom (often beholden to very non technical middle management).
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    >At the majority of smaller companies, it's just CRUD app stuff, probably in C#, with significantly less freedom This is a very strange point-of-view. I've worked in "small" (~100 employees or fewer) business my entire career, and not once was it strictly CRUD stuff in C#. The freedom is debatable, I guess, since I have no experience at larger companies, but I certainly never found that my freedom is confined. Most often there is opportunity to contribute anywhere and everywhere, and management is happy to have the help.
    - quacked 4y ago
      I'm not a dev but still highly technical, and devs turning their noses up at "CRUD stuff" always makes me laugh. It reminds me of the musicians I know who won't play in certain styles because it's not "meaningful" or "true to their artistic vision". Bud I was at your last gig, you don't sound that great even when you're playing "meaningful" music. Similarly, most of the devs I've worked with that are obsessed with "exciting" work still turn out pretty questionable stuff, and their careers would probably be better served if the built out a "simple" CRUD app, took it really seriously, and then examined the effects of their design on other teams.
  - dx034 4y ago
    Is that bad? You can solve interesting challenges in C# with CRUD stuff. Nothing that scales to millions of users, but there are challenges other than scaling.
  - rewgs 4y ago
    I'm the sole developer at a non-tech company, and I have near-complete freedom because management is non-technical (and humble enough to admit that). I really, really enjoy my current job. Not saying that's the norm, of course -- just adding a data point to the convo.
- Jensson 4y ago
  > smaller companies usually offer much more freedom to implement your ideas Not really, if I come up with a novel algorithm or a different architecture to do a task better at Google then they will give me the chance to implement it even if it takes months or years. Small companies doesn't care about your ideas, they just want a cog that can give them a basic website because that is all they need, novel things doesn't help them. If you mean "novel product ideas" then sure, but we aren't product managers we are programmers so our ideas would mostly be related to architecture or algorithms.
  - dx034 4y ago
    Then you've been at different small companies than I have. Obviously if you're the only person in tech at that company it's hard to do groundbreaking stuff. But small tech companies solve challenges everyday. And being able to directly convince the CEO (who is often technical at these companies) can make decisions much quicker than at large companies.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      > small tech companies solve challenges everyday Yes, just not challenges that requires ideas to solve. They are mostly just following the same path every other tech company went, re implementing the same systems. To them it doesn't matter if the system is better or worse, they just want a system since going from 0 to 1 is huge, meaning that they wont give you time or resources to implement your idea, they just want a cheap idea.
bumby 4y ago
The technical challenges may be interesting, but are the strategic ones? I.e., do you think most people would choose to work on problems that optimize ad spend vs. something like, say, healthcare if all else was equal?
- HEmanZ 4y ago
  Why work on ad optimization when you can work on insurance billing optimization?
  - bumby 4y ago
    haha point taken. I would argue "insurance" isn't "healthcare". But this somewhat underscores my larger point. The SV mindset is almost solely focused on maximizing revenue, whether that's ads or insurance billing. My point is that there are other, possibly more interesting, problems to work on if you relax that constrained viewpoint.
samrocksc 4y ago
None of these are really factual points. Big Shops are place where you just get stuck being a YAML jockey and bantering in RFCs.