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All the talk to a flatter structure, being lean, focusing on the tech actually makes me want to work at Meta. If only they would change their leetcode interview

All the talk to a flatter structure, being lean, focusing on the tech actually makes me want to work at Meta. If only they would change their leetcode interview process!

ceejayoz 4y ago
> All the talk to a flatter structure, being lean, focusing on the tech actually makes me want to work at Meta. Do you take those claims as seriously as you do "Meta is building the future of human connection", "Year of Efficiency", and "Meta builds new ways for people to feel closer"? This is a PR fluff message about layoffs. I wouldn't take any claims in it at raw face value.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  Its not fluff entirely. My friends who are in managment are now coding and some middle management people have quit.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    This announcement says the layoffs and reorg will occur "over the next couple of months". They haven't happened yet.
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      Not sure what you are implying. They have asked many managers to start coding or leave a while ago, their title is still EM maybe will change to IC now.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        I'm implying companies tend to come up with all sorts of great sounding PR fluff to explain layoffs, and that I'm generally skeptical of claims to be making orgs "flatter". If this statement specifically makes someone want to work at Facebook, I think their bullshit meter needs adjusting.
    - anotherengineer 4y ago
      i believe they're already happening. i have one friend at meta who's manager was swapped to an IC role already, and one friend who's an EM that's in the process of swapping to an IC role
- shuckles 4y ago
  I’ve always found Meta’s self deception about where they innovate really funny. I can’t think of any social technology they brought to market which helps me feel close to those around me, besides maybe Facebook Events and Groups.
dangwhy 4y ago
Same. Sounds like a place where actual work is respected.
- Fricken 4y ago
  And you can feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you're helping to make teenage girls suicidally depressed.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
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  - raspberry1337 4y ago
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  - dangwhy 4y ago
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  - raspberry1337 4y ago
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  - Laaas 4y ago
    Meta isn't just Instagram, and Instagram isn't just suicidal tendencies. You could just as well do the argument with any big company.
  - postsantum 4y ago
    I get depressed readying about mind-blowing tech on HN every day and feeling old and inadequate. YC, what are you doing?
nbaugh1 4y ago
Yeah they're gonna be real flat and lean with the 60k employees left after this 10k get laid off. I'm no operations expert but I'm pretty sure all this is going to do is free up some payroll funds
raspberry1337 4y ago
Me too. I wish I could work at a company where I dont have a "project manager" making more than I do for sending a few emails and holding a weekly project meeting. I've decided to practice leetcode if that's what it takes.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
It makes me think I’d get efficiently laid off within a year or so. I’ve worked at a few places that thought they were lean and flat as well, but they aren’t. Someone in leadership likes the idea and goes on and on about it, but the actual structure and legacy of past structures creates a complete mess. The only thing that gets done is talking about how great the team is and how much awesome stuff is getting done. Then everyone gets laid off again.
brap 4y ago
1. Work at Meta 2. Be top performer 3. Get promoted to manager 4. Manage <5 people as a newbie manager 5. Get fired because you don't manage enough people Or, alternatively: 1. Work at Meta 2. Be top performer 3. Never get promoted I don't know, this doesn't make me want to work at Meta. Certainly not as a top performer.
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  I don't work at Meta, but if its anything like where I currently work, the ones who become "managers" have no correlation to coding performance, or perfomance at all for that matter.
  - brap 4y ago
    For most FAANG companies, it's IC -> TL -> TLM -> EM, unless you explicitly insist on remaining IC/TL (and then you're on the chopping block, because promotion trajectory for ICs becomes very, very slow beyond a certain point).
    - pedrosorio 4y ago
      > and then you're on the chopping block, because promotion trajectory for ICs becomes very, very slow beyond a certain point The former does not follow from the latter.
    - fach 4y ago
      This isn’t true in my experience across a few FAANGs. And promotion is very slow on both tracks once you get to terminal level + 1.
    - fingerlocks 4y ago
      This isn’t true. I personally know gray hairs that retired as ICs in at least three of those letters in your outdated acronym. It should be MAAAM by now- Microsoft is famous for the IC rest-and-vest to ‘55 lifestyle.
  - dagw 4y ago

All the talk to a flatter structure, being lean, focusing on the tech actually makes me want to work at Meta. If only they would change their leetcode interview process!

ceejayoz 4y ago

> All the talk to a flatter structure, being lean, focusing on the tech actually makes me want to work at Meta. Do you take those claims as seriously as you do "Meta is building the future of human connection", "Year of Efficiency", and "Meta builds new ways for people to feel closer"? This is a PR fluff message about layoffs. I wouldn't take any claims in it at raw face value.

dangwhy 4y ago
Its not fluff entirely. My friends who are in managment are now coding and some middle management people have quit.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  This announcement says the layoffs and reorg will occur "over the next couple of months". They haven't happened yet.
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    Not sure what you are implying. They have asked many managers to start coding or leave a while ago, their title is still EM maybe will change to IC now.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      I'm implying companies tend to come up with all sorts of great sounding PR fluff to explain layoffs, and that I'm generally skeptical of claims to be making orgs "flatter". If this statement specifically makes someone want to work at Facebook, I think their bullshit meter needs adjusting.
  - anotherengineer 4y ago
    i believe they're already happening. i have one friend at meta who's manager was swapped to an IC role already, and one friend who's an EM that's in the process of swapping to an IC role
shuckles 4y ago
I’ve always found Meta’s self deception about where they innovate really funny. I can’t think of any social technology they brought to market which helps me feel close to those around me, besides maybe Facebook Events and Groups.

dangwhy 4y ago

Same. Sounds like a place where actual work is respected.

Fricken 4y ago
And you can feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you're helping to make teenage girls suicidally depressed.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  [flagged]
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dangwhy 4y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  [flagged]
- Laaas 4y ago
  Meta isn't just Instagram, and Instagram isn't just suicidal tendencies. You could just as well do the argument with any big company.
- postsantum 4y ago
  I get depressed readying about mind-blowing tech on HN every day and feeling old and inadequate. YC, what are you doing?

nbaugh1 4y ago

Yeah they're gonna be real flat and lean with the 60k employees left after this 10k get laid off. I'm no operations expert but I'm pretty sure all this is going to do is free up some payroll funds

raspberry1337 4y ago

Me too. I wish I could work at a company where I dont have a "project manager" making more than I do for sending a few emails and holding a weekly project meeting. I've decided to practice leetcode if that's what it takes.

steve_adams_86 4y ago

It makes me think I’d get efficiently laid off within a year or so. I’ve worked at a few places that thought they were lean and flat as well, but they aren’t. Someone in leadership likes the idea and goes on and on about it, but the actual structure and legacy of past structures creates a complete mess. The only thing that gets done is talking about how great the team is and how much awesome stuff is getting done. Then everyone gets laid off again.

brap 4y ago

1. Work at Meta 2. Be top performer 3. Get promoted to manager 4. Manage <5 people as a newbie manager 5. Get fired because you don't manage enough people Or, alternatively: 1. Work at Meta 2. Be top performer 3. Never get promoted I don't know, this doesn't make me want to work at Meta. Certainly not as a top performer.

raspberry1337 4y ago
I don't work at Meta, but if its anything like where I currently work, the ones who become "managers" have no correlation to coding performance, or perfomance at all for that matter.
- brap 4y ago
  For most FAANG companies, it's IC -> TL -> TLM -> EM, unless you explicitly insist on remaining IC/TL (and then you're on the chopping block, because promotion trajectory for ICs becomes very, very slow beyond a certain point).
  - pedrosorio 4y ago
    > and then you're on the chopping block, because promotion trajectory for ICs becomes very, very slow beyond a certain point The former does not follow from the latter.
  - fach 4y ago
    This isn’t true in my experience across a few FAANGs. And promotion is very slow on both tracks once you get to terminal level + 1.
  - fingerlocks 4y ago
    This isn’t true. I personally know gray hairs that retired as ICs in at least three of those letters in your outdated acronym. It should be MAAAM by now- Microsoft is famous for the IC rest-and-vest to ‘55 lifestyle.
- dagw 4y ago