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For the many programmers asking questions like this… if your programming skills can’t compete with a supercharged auto-complete (call it “AI” if you prefer), th

For the many programmers asking questions like this… if your programming skills can’t compete with a supercharged auto-complete (call it “AI” if you prefer), then you won’t stay relevant or employed for long. Until SkyNet nukes us all I will continue doing what I do. None of my customers imagine replacing me or anyone else developing software with a really good chatbot.

ahuth 4y ago
Nice framing - need to be better than supercharged auto-complete. What kind of stuff do you work on?
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  Sounds like the best stuff to work on is supercharged auto-complete.
- gregjor 4y ago
  Web application development and system admin, which mostly means cloud infrastructure. A lot of that is already automated in some sense, but not enough for my customers to tell Alexa to set up a VPC and write some useful code for them.
Riverheart 4y ago
I think this person is concerned with AI as it will evolve not as it currently exists today. This person may be young and will need to stay in the market dealing with that evolution longer. Everybody starts as a junior before they become elite programmer but if the bottom is removed people won't be able to skill up.
commitpizza 4y ago
You sound a bit like an old man not adapting to technology progress. As an example, if I would make a logo today I would perhaps before used Fiverr or similar services but not I will use an AI and then edit it in some photo editor. It has become much easier to do stuff like that even if you suck at photo editing.
- habibur 4y ago
  That means logo designers are out of job. Not programmers.
  - commitpizza 4y ago
    Well in time the same could perhaps be said about programmers. ChatGPT can already write a lot of advanced code tbh.
- z3c0 4y ago
  Certainly an applicable analogy - all the people whose standards are low enough to use a doctored-up JPEG as a logo now have a free solution. The rest of us who'd prefer a vector graphic, or maybe a .ai or .psd, will continue paying for quality output and the ability to have a rapport about aesthetics. When you pay a person, you're paying for more than the output. Maybe they'll use a GPT/LLM model behind the scenes, but I also use bucket-loads of coffee behind the scenes. That doesn't mean a bag of Stumptown can build your analytics architecture.
  - commitpizza 4y ago
    Well if you already have an image you're satisfied with, it's really easy to make it into vector graphics. Either you can map it yourself or just use a tool for it. As an example of this I generated an image of a dog with an AI and then I put it in the vectormagic.com's tool. The result is very good since the image is not a logo style but an advanced image with a lot of detail. https://vectormagic.com/images/kvzrgcxyjp45m/edit/p24qfcqegjjk111diih0uaofjgk2n5hs99ha67pu0ib23pjl8bec https://vectormagic.com/images/kvzrgcxyjp45m/edit/p24qfcqegj...
    - z3c0 4y ago
      Yes, many image editors support converting a raster image to a vector, even high-fidelity images like the one you've shown. But creating a usable vector is more than just dropping an image into vectorizer and cleaning up the results. Every angle and point in a vector is handled like a unique object, and thus, the image you've shown would be a nightmare to work with. Often times, there will be numerous duplicate points and hidden angles that can be impossible to sniff out. That's why Illustrator is distinct from Photoshop - creating vectors from scratch is not the same process as converting a raster, and the result is typically far more clean. So yeah, still stands. If you can stomach messy, unpredictable outputs, use an automated solution. If you want something lean and usable, use a human-being.
enlyth 4y ago
As a developer I feel that understanding business requirements, translating them into code, liaising with product owners, designers, managing deadlines, expectations, making decisions on when to push back, having a mental map of the codebase, managing infrastructure, knowing which dependencies to use and when, these are the most difficult parts of the job. Writing the actual code once it gets to it is usually not the hard part, unless you work on particularly difficult problems. LLMs help but don't replace us just yet.
- gregjor 4y ago
  I’ve said a thousand times that learning a programming language and writing code are just a small part of successful software development. Necessary but not sufficient. Programmers who focus all their efforts on skills that can get automated will eventually get automated away. When a chatbot can replace me in terms of understanding customers and business domain expertise, and translate requirements into code, I’ll retire.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Honest question: Is ChatGPT better than IntelliJ already was?
- rswskg 4y ago
  That did occur to me while using github copilot recently. With the correct plugin, yes.
z3c0 4y ago
Who knows, maybe we'll see new programming jobs emerge for cleaning up all the shitty LLM code finding its way into systems as we speak. Lazy programmers have provided me a lot of job security in the past.
- gregjor 4y ago
  No doubt. There’s more money in maintenance programming than green field development. But there's no startup stock option lottery ticket in maintenance work, just a steady income.

ahuth 4y ago

Nice framing - need to be better than supercharged auto-complete. What kind of stuff do you work on?

cassianoleal 4y ago
Sounds like the best stuff to work on is supercharged auto-complete.
gregjor 4y ago
Web application development and system admin, which mostly means cloud infrastructure. A lot of that is already automated in some sense, but not enough for my customers to tell Alexa to set up a VPC and write some useful code for them.

Riverheart 4y ago

I think this person is concerned with AI as it will evolve not as it currently exists today. This person may be young and will need to stay in the market dealing with that evolution longer. Everybody starts as a junior before they become elite programmer but if the bottom is removed people won't be able to skill up.

commitpizza 4y ago

You sound a bit like an old man not adapting to technology progress. As an example, if I would make a logo today I would perhaps before used Fiverr or similar services but not I will use an AI and then edit it in some photo editor. It has become much easier to do stuff like that even if you suck at photo editing.

habibur 4y ago
That means logo designers are out of job. Not programmers.
- commitpizza 4y ago
  Well in time the same could perhaps be said about programmers. ChatGPT can already write a lot of advanced code tbh.
z3c0 4y ago
Certainly an applicable analogy - all the people whose standards are low enough to use a doctored-up JPEG as a logo now have a free solution. The rest of us who'd prefer a vector graphic, or maybe a .ai or .psd, will continue paying for quality output and the ability to have a rapport about aesthetics. When you pay a person, you're paying for more than the output. Maybe they'll use a GPT/LLM model behind the scenes, but I also use bucket-loads of coffee behind the scenes. That doesn't mean a bag of Stumptown can build your analytics architecture.
- commitpizza 4y ago
  Well if you already have an image you're satisfied with, it's really easy to make it into vector graphics. Either you can map it yourself or just use a tool for it. As an example of this I generated an image of a dog with an AI and then I put it in the vectormagic.com's tool. The result is very good since the image is not a logo style but an advanced image with a lot of detail. https://vectormagic.com/images/kvzrgcxyjp45m/edit/p24qfcqegjjk111diih0uaofjgk2n5hs99ha67pu0ib23pjl8bec https://vectormagic.com/images/kvzrgcxyjp45m/edit/p24qfcqegj...
  - z3c0 4y ago
    Yes, many image editors support converting a raster image to a vector, even high-fidelity images like the one you've shown. But creating a usable vector is more than just dropping an image into vectorizer and cleaning up the results. Every angle and point in a vector is handled like a unique object, and thus, the image you've shown would be a nightmare to work with. Often times, there will be numerous duplicate points and hidden angles that can be impossible to sniff out. That's why Illustrator is distinct from Photoshop - creating vectors from scratch is not the same process as converting a raster, and the result is typically far more clean. So yeah, still stands. If you can stomach messy, unpredictable outputs, use an automated solution. If you want something lean and usable, use a human-being.

enlyth 4y ago

As a developer I feel that understanding business requirements, translating them into code, liaising with product owners, designers, managing deadlines, expectations, making decisions on when to push back, having a mental map of the codebase, managing infrastructure, knowing which dependencies to use and when, these are the most difficult parts of the job. Writing the actual code once it gets to it is usually not the hard part, unless you work on particularly difficult problems. LLMs help but don't replace us just yet.

gregjor 4y ago
I’ve said a thousand times that learning a programming language and writing code are just a small part of successful software development. Necessary but not sufficient. Programmers who focus all their efforts on skills that can get automated will eventually get automated away. When a chatbot can replace me in terms of understanding customers and business domain expertise, and translate requirements into code, I’ll retire.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

Honest question: Is ChatGPT better than IntelliJ already was?

rswskg 4y ago
That did occur to me while using github copilot recently. With the correct plugin, yes.

z3c0 4y ago

Who knows, maybe we'll see new programming jobs emerge for cleaning up all the shitty LLM code finding its way into systems as we speak. Lazy programmers have provided me a lot of job security in the past.

gregjor 4y ago
No doubt. There’s more money in maintenance programming than green field development. But there's no startup stock option lottery ticket in maintenance work, just a steady income.