4 ms·

>pre-industrial democracy You have a very rose tinted view of how democracy was in the past or who actually made decisions.

user3939382 4y ago
It wasn't perfect but it existed. Calling it rose-colored is to downplay how bad it's gotten. The complex of multinational corporations and their lobby groups that run our government today didn't exist then, the e.g. railroad companies are no comparison.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  It existed - if you were a White man. Nice work if you can get it.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  My brother in christ, this country LITERALLY started as a bunch of rich white dudes stirring shit up to get essentially their own self designed government where only wealthy white dudes could have a say and black people were not even allowed to be considered people. The fact that a couple of them had some ideals and there were handwavy references to those ideals does not change that America was not a democracy for a very long time, with reasonable arguments that it still isn't
- marcinzm 4y ago
  The US was founded by a bunch of rich white men who mostly inherited their wealth and literally owned other human beings. A lot of the government structures were explicitly designed to prevent the masses from having too much of a direct voice as they couldn't be "trusted." Electoral college to override a "bad" popular vote (not that most states did popular votes), senators not chosen by direct election, etc. edit: Not to mention the US had an actual horrible bloody civil war fought by forcefully drafted soldiers due to conflicts over government processes. Truly a staller example of democratic decision making right there.
Sammi 4y ago
The democratic situation was wayyy better than it is now. You did not refute the original point. You've only managed to muddy the discussion with irrelevance and noise.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  There was no argument but a baseless statement and I replied likewise. It's on the original person to make a coherent argument with facts and not for everyone else to do their legwork.

user3939382 4y ago

It wasn't perfect but it existed. Calling it rose-colored is to downplay how bad it's gotten. The complex of multinational corporations and their lobby groups that run our government today didn't exist then, the e.g. railroad companies are no comparison.

cool_dude85 4y ago
It existed - if you were a White man. Nice work if you can get it.
mrguyorama 4y ago
My brother in christ, this country LITERALLY started as a bunch of rich white dudes stirring shit up to get essentially their own self designed government where only wealthy white dudes could have a say and black people were not even allowed to be considered people. The fact that a couple of them had some ideals and there were handwavy references to those ideals does not change that America was not a democracy for a very long time, with reasonable arguments that it still isn't
marcinzm 4y ago
The US was founded by a bunch of rich white men who mostly inherited their wealth and literally owned other human beings. A lot of the government structures were explicitly designed to prevent the masses from having too much of a direct voice as they couldn't be "trusted." Electoral college to override a "bad" popular vote (not that most states did popular votes), senators not chosen by direct election, etc. edit: Not to mention the US had an actual horrible bloody civil war fought by forcefully drafted soldiers due to conflicts over government processes. Truly a staller example of democratic decision making right there.

Sammi 4y ago

The democratic situation was wayyy better than it is now. You did not refute the original point. You've only managed to muddy the discussion with irrelevance and noise.

marcinzm 4y ago
There was no argument but a baseless statement and I replied likewise. It's on the original person to make a coherent argument with facts and not for everyone else to do their legwork.