7 ms·

Our government, and large swaths of the media, is owned by banks and corporations. The vestiges of the pre-industrial democracy we had persist as a sham to keep

Our government, and large swaths of the media, is owned by banks and corporations. The vestiges of the pre-industrial democracy we had persist as a sham to keep the electorate’s consent for and compliance with this system. Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician. Unfortunately it won’t be until bread is $30/loaf that the public will wake up to what’s going on.

marcinzm 4y ago
>pre-industrial democracy You have a very rose tinted view of how democracy was in the past or who actually made decisions.
- user3939382 4y ago
  It wasn't perfect but it existed. Calling it rose-colored is to downplay how bad it's gotten. The complex of multinational corporations and their lobby groups that run our government today didn't exist then, the e.g. railroad companies are no comparison.
  - cool_dude85 4y ago
    It existed - if you were a White man. Nice work if you can get it.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    My brother in christ, this country LITERALLY started as a bunch of rich white dudes stirring shit up to get essentially their own self designed government where only wealthy white dudes could have a say and black people were not even allowed to be considered people. The fact that a couple of them had some ideals and there were handwavy references to those ideals does not change that America was not a democracy for a very long time, with reasonable arguments that it still isn't
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    The US was founded by a bunch of rich white men who mostly inherited their wealth and literally owned other human beings. A lot of the government structures were explicitly designed to prevent the masses from having too much of a direct voice as they couldn't be "trusted." Electoral college to override a "bad" popular vote (not that most states did popular votes), senators not chosen by direct election, etc. edit: Not to mention the US had an actual horrible bloody civil war fought by forcefully drafted soldiers due to conflicts over government processes. Truly a staller example of democratic decision making right there.
- Sammi 4y ago
  The democratic situation was wayyy better than it is now. You did not refute the original point. You've only managed to muddy the discussion with irrelevance and noise.
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    There was no argument but a baseless statement and I replied likewise. It's on the original person to make a coherent argument with facts and not for everyone else to do their legwork.
fallingknife 4y ago
They should have the right to put their proposal to a vote and make their case, and the did, and they won. This was a democratic vote by the citizens of California. And if it were a democratic vote by the Uber drivers, it also would have won.
- josho 4y ago
  I think you missed the point. Companies are not citizens therefore, op argued, as non citizens they should not have a voice in election outcomes. It’s a fair point, as a comparison we don’t allow visa holders to vote. I also suspect the citizens were influenced in their opinions by all the money spent to ‘educate’ the electorate. Somehow it feels wrong to allow a corporation to pay to set school curriculums, but when it comes to corporations paying to set policy that’s entirely ok.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    The ACLU and unions aren’t citizens either, should we ban them from participating?
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      If we want to ban Corps then absolutely.
  - fallingknife 4y ago
    Paying officials to set policy is wrong. Spending money to make your case, convince people that you are right, and advocate that they support your political position is a fundamental right in a democracy. Freedom of the press guarantees the right for citizens to be able to publish as they please, and the owners and management of Uber are citizens as much as anyone else.
    - user3939382 4y ago
      The problem isn't with the owners and managers spending money it's the company itself. c.f. Citizens United.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician The arrogance of California's elite this topic exposed is breathtaking. The only way for the other side to have won is because they were brainwashed. The only legitimate vote, or survey among those whose lives we're debating, is the one that sides with the enlightened minority.
BurningFrog 4y ago
Uber and Lyft are groups of people.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
  The US Army is a group of people, too.

marcinzm 4y ago

>pre-industrial democracy You have a very rose tinted view of how democracy was in the past or who actually made decisions.

user3939382 4y ago
It wasn't perfect but it existed. Calling it rose-colored is to downplay how bad it's gotten. The complex of multinational corporations and their lobby groups that run our government today didn't exist then, the e.g. railroad companies are no comparison.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  It existed - if you were a White man. Nice work if you can get it.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  My brother in christ, this country LITERALLY started as a bunch of rich white dudes stirring shit up to get essentially their own self designed government where only wealthy white dudes could have a say and black people were not even allowed to be considered people. The fact that a couple of them had some ideals and there were handwavy references to those ideals does not change that America was not a democracy for a very long time, with reasonable arguments that it still isn't
- marcinzm 4y ago
  The US was founded by a bunch of rich white men who mostly inherited their wealth and literally owned other human beings. A lot of the government structures were explicitly designed to prevent the masses from having too much of a direct voice as they couldn't be "trusted." Electoral college to override a "bad" popular vote (not that most states did popular votes), senators not chosen by direct election, etc. edit: Not to mention the US had an actual horrible bloody civil war fought by forcefully drafted soldiers due to conflicts over government processes. Truly a staller example of democratic decision making right there.
Sammi 4y ago
The democratic situation was wayyy better than it is now. You did not refute the original point. You've only managed to muddy the discussion with irrelevance and noise.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  There was no argument but a baseless statement and I replied likewise. It's on the original person to make a coherent argument with facts and not for everyone else to do their legwork.

fallingknife 4y ago

They should have the right to put their proposal to a vote and make their case, and the did, and they won. This was a democratic vote by the citizens of California. And if it were a democratic vote by the Uber drivers, it also would have won.

josho 4y ago
I think you missed the point. Companies are not citizens therefore, op argued, as non citizens they should not have a voice in election outcomes. It’s a fair point, as a comparison we don’t allow visa holders to vote. I also suspect the citizens were influenced in their opinions by all the money spent to ‘educate’ the electorate. Somehow it feels wrong to allow a corporation to pay to set school curriculums, but when it comes to corporations paying to set policy that’s entirely ok.
- rhino369 4y ago
  The ACLU and unions aren’t citizens either, should we ban them from participating?
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    If we want to ban Corps then absolutely.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  Paying officials to set policy is wrong. Spending money to make your case, convince people that you are right, and advocate that they support your political position is a fundamental right in a democracy. Freedom of the press guarantees the right for citizens to be able to publish as they please, and the owners and management of Uber are citizens as much as anyone else.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    The problem isn't with the owners and managers spending money it's the company itself. c.f. Citizens United.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician The arrogance of California's elite this topic exposed is breathtaking. The only way for the other side to have won is because they were brainwashed. The only legitimate vote, or survey among those whose lives we're debating, is the one that sides with the enlightened minority.

BurningFrog 4y ago

Uber and Lyft are groups of people.

rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
The US Army is a group of people, too.