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It's important to appreciate that there are several different breeds of audiophile out there... There are those that are obsessed with objectively measurable s

by beloch 4y ago

It's important to appreciate that there are several different breeds of audiophile out there... There are those that are obsessed with objectively measurable sound quality. They want to reproduce the recorded waveform as accurately as possible, and they want products that can be measured doing that, but they often pursue accuracy beyond the limits of any human to hear. There are those that like a little distortion or degradation if it sounds nice to them. These are the people who collect tube amps and will openly admit they're not as accurate, but accuracy is not what they're after. There are those who embrace voodoo. I knew a physics professor who was one of these. He had hideously expensive isolation platforms, resonator weights, unobtanium cables, "ambient field conditioners"... You name it. He knew there was no scientific basis for any them to work, but he had very deliberately deluded himself. If asked, he'd explain that the ultimate goal of the audiophile's pursuit was pleasure. If he could shut down his reasoning and spend hours moving resonator stones around on top of his CD transport until he thought he had improved the sound, and this gave him pleasure, was that pleasure not real even if the sound was exactly the same? Then there are those who combine contradictory aspects of all of the above without any self-awareness or critical thinking skills. That's the sort that will torment themselves, and others, arguing on internet forums about why their own snake oil of choice is legitimate, real, and how anyone who isn't using it is a cretin.

karamanolev 4y ago
I echo the above, but wanted to an important (to me) nuance for those who pursue accuracy beyond the limits of human hearing. Usually, errors and distortions stack across multiple system components. While really bad components can be A/B/X tested accurately, good ones rarely can be. Still, imperceptible errors that accumulate/amplify can result in actual, audible differences. One can liken it to floating point computations where the error ranges grow each time and can reach unacceptable levels.
willis936 4y ago
I'm an instrumentation junkie at heart, but I'm a pragmatist first. I have a cheap receiver and cheap speakers. What I want so badly is for software solutions to be properly cheap. Rooms are relatively static conditions, meaning a simple FIR filter can be tuned once and give consistent results. Calibrating speakers and room multipath should not be gatekept with $1000+ hardware. Freedsp is the only name I know that offers a cheap option. They are a modest operation that only supply designs and bare boards. Integrating freedsp into a modern home theatre setup requires inelegant solutions (Source -> TV -> Receiver -> freedsp -> amplifier). I just wish there was any competition left in the big players to push measurable home audio performance higher.
- Sesse__ 4y ago
  If you already have a receiver, pretty much anything these days will come with a room measurement system to create that FIR filter. You don't get the coefficients, though.
  - willis936 4y ago
    Unless you spring for fancier receivers the most you get is parametric EQ weights. It's a simple IIR filter rather than a proper FIR.
- MisterTea 4y ago
  > Calibrating speakers and room multipath should not be gatekept with $1000+ hardware. Not really that expensive: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-OmniMic-V2-Acoustic-Measurement-System-390-792?quantity=1 https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-OmniMic-V2-Acoust... https://www.parts-express.com/search?order=relevance:desc&keywords=dsp https://www.parts-express.com/search?order=relevance:desc&ke...
dTal 4y ago
>was that pleasure not real even if the sound was exactly the same? Not as real as the pleasure obtainable by spending all that money on hookers and blow instead of hideously expensive snake oil. Money can buy happiness, but it's not always a good deal.
Longlius 4y ago
>they often pursue accuracy beyond the limits of any human to hear Not simply beyond human hearing but beyond the limits where any information is preserved at all. There's a class of audiophiles who have never even heard of Shannon-Nyquist.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  And then there are those who only listen to SACD or 96kHz FLAC
the_third_wave 4y ago
> If he could shut down his reasoning and spend hours moving resonator stones around on top of his CD transport until he thought he had improved the sound, and this gave him pleasure, was that pleasure not real even if the sound was exactly the same? Of course it was, the placebo effect exists and works after all. Where these audiophiles turn into audiophools is here: > hideously expensive isolation platforms, resonator weights, unobtanium cables, "ambient field conditioners"... You name it They allow themselves to be duped by unscrupulous snake oil merchants instead of simply telling themselves that the rocks they collected on the beach are just the thing to liven up their sound stage.
ultrarunner 4y ago
And here I can't even get a parametric EQ for Apple Music

by beloch 4y ago

karamanolev 4y ago

I echo the above, but wanted to an important (to me) nuance for those who pursue accuracy beyond the limits of human hearing. Usually, errors and distortions stack across multiple system components. While really bad components can be A/B/X tested accurately, good ones rarely can be. Still, imperceptible errors that accumulate/amplify can result in actual, audible differences. One can liken it to floating point computations where the error ranges grow each time and can reach unacceptable levels.

willis936 4y ago

I'm an instrumentation junkie at heart, but I'm a pragmatist first. I have a cheap receiver and cheap speakers. What I want so badly is for software solutions to be properly cheap. Rooms are relatively static conditions, meaning a simple FIR filter can be tuned once and give consistent results. Calibrating speakers and room multipath should not be gatekept with $1000+ hardware. Freedsp is the only name I know that offers a cheap option. They are a modest operation that only supply designs and bare boards. Integrating freedsp into a modern home theatre setup requires inelegant solutions (Source -> TV -> Receiver -> freedsp -> amplifier). I just wish there was any competition left in the big players to push measurable home audio performance higher.

Sesse__ 4y ago
If you already have a receiver, pretty much anything these days will come with a room measurement system to create that FIR filter. You don't get the coefficients, though.
- willis936 4y ago
  Unless you spring for fancier receivers the most you get is parametric EQ weights. It's a simple IIR filter rather than a proper FIR.
MisterTea 4y ago
> Calibrating speakers and room multipath should not be gatekept with $1000+ hardware. Not really that expensive: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-OmniMic-V2-Acoustic-Measurement-System-390-792?quantity=1 https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-OmniMic-V2-Acoust... https://www.parts-express.com/search?order=relevance:desc&keywords=dsp https://www.parts-express.com/search?order=relevance:desc&ke...

dTal 4y ago

>was that pleasure not real even if the sound was exactly the same? Not as real as the pleasure obtainable by spending all that money on hookers and blow instead of hideously expensive snake oil. Money can buy happiness, but it's not always a good deal.

Longlius 4y ago

>they often pursue accuracy beyond the limits of any human to hear Not simply beyond human hearing but beyond the limits where any information is preserved at all. There's a class of audiophiles who have never even heard of Shannon-Nyquist.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
And then there are those who only listen to SACD or 96kHz FLAC

the_third_wave 4y ago

> If he could shut down his reasoning and spend hours moving resonator stones around on top of his CD transport until he thought he had improved the sound, and this gave him pleasure, was that pleasure not real even if the sound was exactly the same? Of course it was, the placebo effect exists and works after all. Where these audiophiles turn into audiophools is here: > hideously expensive isolation platforms, resonator weights, unobtanium cables, "ambient field conditioners"... You name it They allow themselves to be duped by unscrupulous snake oil merchants instead of simply telling themselves that the rocks they collected on the beach are just the thing to liven up their sound stage.

ultrarunner 4y ago

And here I can't even get a parametric EQ for Apple Music