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Paid per hour, free to chose their working hours, free to work for multiple employers at the same time, etc. How are they not contractors? They're way more con

Paid per hour, free to chose their working hours, free to work for multiple employers at the same time, etc. How are they not contractors? They're way more contractors than the contractors that were working 9 to 5, 5 days a week, for years, for my FAANG.

joker99 4y ago
But the fee/payment is dictated by the company which takes away a significant part of autonomy I guess
- fallingknife 4y ago
  What does this have to do with being a contractor vs employee. I negotiated my salary. Does that make me a contractor?
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  Although they have the ability to turn down a ride if the fee isn't high enough, and the price will go up until someone accepts it. I see Uber drivers do this a lot in geofenced areas to jack up the price
throwawayiddqd 4y ago
I do not think they can choose their working hours, their income does not allow this freedom. Not US, but I did some study on Ukraine immigrants in Poland, etc, they work as self-employed at factories, like LG and Samsung and even make some parts for Porsche cars. A luxury made by slavery, 12 h/day, 6 days a week and minimum hour rate.
- bluedino 4y ago
  Uber's website says: Drive when you want, make what you need Earn on your own schedule. They can't force you to pick someone up.
- 988747 4y ago
  [dead]
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  You’re mistaking the difference between two ends of the world. I have lived and worked in both. In the US a Lyft/Uber driver owns their vehicle, has an app they can log in and out of any moment they like. The license and registration is checked, the car is regularly inspected. (There are schemes where you can lease out the car but that is another subject). The driver has a chunk of their income taken by Uber/Lyft and they have to pay for fuel and other expenses. Everything is insured. The money isn’t great but it’s your business whether you are “free” doing it. I have done this. In Poland, the car will often be owned by someone who owns a fleet. The account in the app will be fake. The immigrant driver will be working under another name for the “fleet” owner, and the car will (often) be an uninspected beater. Doing the whole Uber thing was also entirely illegal until a certain point (I don’t know where this is now). So who knows what kinds of corrupt slave relationships were/are going on there. I have not done this, but I live in a Polish city with one of those LG factories. Factories and how shitty those are is a irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
nunez 4y ago
they can't set their rates. that's a huge part of being a contractor.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  They can. Refusing to take some rides that they do not deem profitable is the same as "negotiating their rate". If anything, they probably have a lot more power regarding compensation than if they were employees, all earning the same (definitely shitty) salary.
  - nunez 4y ago
    That's just refusing work at a given rate. A contractor can say "I used to charge $300/hr; I now charge $400/hr because $REASONS." definitely agree on the drivers having more flex than employees, at least superficially. employees could always quit, though the mechanics of quitting are heavier for employers than terming a contractor are.
  - josho 4y ago
    You’ve taken a narrow interpretation. Drivers have zero ability to set their rate.
jawns 4y ago
None of them work for multiple employers at the same time. They are working multiple part-time jobs with shorter-than-customary on-the-clock times, but if they pick up a Lyft passenger, they're only being paid by Lyft for that time, and if they pick up an Uber passenger, they're only being paid by Uber for that time. There's no double-dipping. The only difference between this arrangement and typical part-time jobs is that with typical PT work, we often think of shifts being measured in hours, whereas with these jobs, shifts are measured in minutes. As for being able to choose their working hours, it sounds nice in the abstract, but the platforms actively punish drivers whose availability is limited.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  > None of them work for multiple employers at the same time. Just like no contractor bills the same hour to two employers. > The only difference between this arrangement and typical part-time jobs is that with typical PT work, we often think of shifts being measured in hours, whereas with these jobs, shifts are measured in minutes. Not at all. There are many differences, namely the ones I have already mentioned above. > As for being able to choose their working hours, it sounds nice in the abstract, but the platforms actively punish drivers whose availability is limited. Just like any company would not prioritize doing business with a software engineering contractor who is available an hour from 8 to 9 AM on Tuesdays and then an hour and a half every other Thursday night. Spin it however you want, they are exactly the same as any other contractor.

joker99 4y ago

But the fee/payment is dictated by the company which takes away a significant part of autonomy I guess

fallingknife 4y ago
What does this have to do with being a contractor vs employee. I negotiated my salary. Does that make me a contractor?
Rebelgecko 4y ago
Although they have the ability to turn down a ride if the fee isn't high enough, and the price will go up until someone accepts it. I see Uber drivers do this a lot in geofenced areas to jack up the price

throwawayiddqd 4y ago

I do not think they can choose their working hours, their income does not allow this freedom. Not US, but I did some study on Ukraine immigrants in Poland, etc, they work as self-employed at factories, like LG and Samsung and even make some parts for Porsche cars. A luxury made by slavery, 12 h/day, 6 days a week and minimum hour rate.

bluedino 4y ago
Uber's website says: Drive when you want, make what you need Earn on your own schedule. They can't force you to pick someone up.
988747 4y ago
[dead]
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
You’re mistaking the difference between two ends of the world. I have lived and worked in both. In the US a Lyft/Uber driver owns their vehicle, has an app they can log in and out of any moment they like. The license and registration is checked, the car is regularly inspected. (There are schemes where you can lease out the car but that is another subject). The driver has a chunk of their income taken by Uber/Lyft and they have to pay for fuel and other expenses. Everything is insured. The money isn’t great but it’s your business whether you are “free” doing it. I have done this. In Poland, the car will often be owned by someone who owns a fleet. The account in the app will be fake. The immigrant driver will be working under another name for the “fleet” owner, and the car will (often) be an uninspected beater. Doing the whole Uber thing was also entirely illegal until a certain point (I don’t know where this is now). So who knows what kinds of corrupt slave relationships were/are going on there. I have not done this, but I live in a Polish city with one of those LG factories. Factories and how shitty those are is a irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

nunez 4y ago

they can't set their rates. that's a huge part of being a contractor.

iLoveOncall 4y ago
They can. Refusing to take some rides that they do not deem profitable is the same as "negotiating their rate". If anything, they probably have a lot more power regarding compensation than if they were employees, all earning the same (definitely shitty) salary.
- nunez 4y ago
  That's just refusing work at a given rate. A contractor can say "I used to charge $300/hr; I now charge $400/hr because $REASONS." definitely agree on the drivers having more flex than employees, at least superficially. employees could always quit, though the mechanics of quitting are heavier for employers than terming a contractor are.
- josho 4y ago
  You’ve taken a narrow interpretation. Drivers have zero ability to set their rate.

jawns 4y ago

None of them work for multiple employers at the same time. They are working multiple part-time jobs with shorter-than-customary on-the-clock times, but if they pick up a Lyft passenger, they're only being paid by Lyft for that time, and if they pick up an Uber passenger, they're only being paid by Uber for that time. There's no double-dipping. The only difference between this arrangement and typical part-time jobs is that with typical PT work, we often think of shifts being measured in hours, whereas with these jobs, shifts are measured in minutes. As for being able to choose their working hours, it sounds nice in the abstract, but the platforms actively punish drivers whose availability is limited.

iLoveOncall 4y ago
> None of them work for multiple employers at the same time. Just like no contractor bills the same hour to two employers. > The only difference between this arrangement and typical part-time jobs is that with typical PT work, we often think of shifts being measured in hours, whereas with these jobs, shifts are measured in minutes. Not at all. There are many differences, namely the ones I have already mentioned above. > As for being able to choose their working hours, it sounds nice in the abstract, but the platforms actively punish drivers whose availability is limited. Just like any company would not prioritize doing business with a software engineering contractor who is available an hour from 8 to 9 AM on Tuesdays and then an hour and a half every other Thursday night. Spin it however you want, they are exactly the same as any other contractor.