6 ms·

Pardon if this is a stupid question, but I think I must be missing something. How is all of this different from turning WiFi off?

by grardb 4y ago

simondotau 4y ago
It isn’t. The how is provided for the sake of reader curiosity; it is ancillary to the analysis performed in this article.
mrtksn 4y ago
The difference is that it includes the initial installation process too. So the idea is that since online services are deeply embedded into the OS, what happens if you don't have an internet connection? A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug. Also, you won't be able to use iOS without an initial internet connection. This creates a curiosity on how usable a Mac is without internet. As it turns out, it's pretty usable.
- pathartl 4y ago
  > A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug. If you're talking about Nov 2021 when Apple's Gatekeeper servers went down, apps weren't just delayed, they were unable to be opened _at all_ unless you blocked DNS requests to the server or completely disabled your internet connection. I believe the only apps that were allowed to be opened were the built in macOS apps. Why this verification is done on every single load is completely beyond me. After this and the whole iPhone 7 radio debacle I won't be buying their products for a long time.
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    What’s the iPhone 7 radio debacle?
    - pathartl 4y ago
      The iPhone 7 had a flaw in its assembly where the radio IC was not epoxied to the PCB correctly. Overtime due to heat stress the chip would get fractures in its solder joints and the phone would lose the ability to get on cell networks. I took my 7 to the Apple store in 2019 with this issue after giving it to my SO. I was told by the store rep that it was an issue with "the third party manufacturer" (Qualcomm) but Apple would do the repair for free. I learned from some independent repair communities that this was actually a really common issue and Apple was doing some silent recalls.
  - less_less 4y ago
    > If you're talking about Nov 2021 when Apple's Gatekeeper servers went down, apps weren't just delayed, they were unable to be opened _at all_ unless you blocked DNS requests to the server or completely disabled your internet connection. IIRC, Gatekeeper responses are cached for some amount of time for each app, so most people were still able to launch a given app. But yeah, you'd have to disable DNS or internet if you were unlucky and the cache had expired. Apple's failure inspired me to research compressed CRLs. These don't have the same privacy problems as OCSP, and they work offline. As far as I can tell they would be a good replacement for OCSP here (and also in most cases on the web) but I don't know how one could convince them to roll them out.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      It was November 2020, and at the time, OCSP responses were only cached for 5 minutes, so most people weren't actually able to launch apps. After the incident, Apple increased the cache period to half a day.
      - pathartl 4y ago
        Ah yeah, I had the year off. At the time it knocked out my SO's entire company for a couple of hours.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  > A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug Convinced this is why Spotlight is so janky on iOS lately and you’ll be just staring at a blank list while searching for a local app.
personjerry 4y ago
The difference is that this article is an advertisement for the app they're selling.
- janfoeh 4y ago
  That is a pretty accusatory comment, given that the _freeware_ program mentioned is linked for download _right in TFA_.
  - sieabahlpark 4y ago
    [dead]
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Freeware is not the same as free software. You can use the former for a bait and switch.
- jamesfmilne 4y ago
  They're not selling it, the app is free.
  - favaq 4y ago
    They are not selling it currently. Once they have enough downloads and people who rely on the app on a daily basis, who knows.
    - bilekas 4y ago
      This assumes too much and isn't really fair to.
    - franzkappa 4y ago
      Just check the website and you’ll know. The website is well respected in the Mac world and their utilities are free since forever edit typos
    - sharikous 4y ago
vinaypai 4y ago
"I turned my WiFi off and nothing surprising happened" wouldn't make it to the front page of HN.
- lapcat 4y ago
  The author blogs almost every day about the Mac on his years-old Mac-oriented blog. The author doesn't write for HN readers, nor did he submit his blog post to HN. Why do the worst HN comments always rise to the top?
  - joshuaissac 4y ago
    > The author doesn't write for HN readers, nor did he submit his blog post to HN. It does not follow from the GP comment's claim that the author must be writing for HN readers. There may be many articles written by many people about how the Mac works without a network connection, but this one happened to be the one to be posted to HN and make it to the front page because it has traits that are in line with what HN wants to read.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > It does not follow from the GP comment's claim that the author must be writing for HN readers. It seemed clear to me that the comment was a snide remark suggesting that the article was clickbait. Much like some of the other snide remarks on this submission, such as the sibling comment "The difference is that this article is an advertisement for the app they're selling." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35149157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35149157

Pardon if this is a stupid question, but I think I must be missing something. How is all of this different from turning WiFi off?

by grardb 4y ago

Pardon if this is a stupid question, but I think I must be missing something. How is all of this different from turning WiFi off?

simondotau 4y ago

It isn’t. The how is provided for the sake of reader curiosity; it is ancillary to the analysis performed in this article.

mrtksn 4y ago

The difference is that it includes the initial installation process too. So the idea is that since online services are deeply embedded into the OS, what happens if you don't have an internet connection? A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug. Also, you won't be able to use iOS without an initial internet connection. This creates a curiosity on how usable a Mac is without internet. As it turns out, it's pretty usable.

pathartl 4y ago
> A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug. If you're talking about Nov 2021 when Apple's Gatekeeper servers went down, apps weren't just delayed, they were unable to be opened _at all_ unless you blocked DNS requests to the server or completely disabled your internet connection. I believe the only apps that were allowed to be opened were the built in macOS apps. Why this verification is done on every single load is completely beyond me. After this and the whole iPhone 7 radio debacle I won't be buying their products for a long time.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  What’s the iPhone 7 radio debacle?
  - pathartl 4y ago
    The iPhone 7 had a flaw in its assembly where the radio IC was not epoxied to the PCB correctly. Overtime due to heat stress the chip would get fractures in its solder joints and the phone would lose the ability to get on cell networks. I took my 7 to the Apple store in 2019 with this issue after giving it to my SO. I was told by the store rep that it was an issue with "the third party manufacturer" (Qualcomm) but Apple would do the repair for free. I learned from some independent repair communities that this was actually a really common issue and Apple was doing some silent recalls.
- less_less 4y ago
  > If you're talking about Nov 2021 when Apple's Gatekeeper servers went down, apps weren't just delayed, they were unable to be opened _at all_ unless you blocked DNS requests to the server or completely disabled your internet connection. IIRC, Gatekeeper responses are cached for some amount of time for each app, so most people were still able to launch a given app. But yeah, you'd have to disable DNS or internet if you were unlucky and the cache had expired. Apple's failure inspired me to research compressed CRLs. These don't have the same privacy problems as OCSP, and they work offline. As far as I can tell they would be a good replacement for OCSP here (and also in most cases on the web) but I don't know how one could convince them to roll them out.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    It was November 2020, and at the time, OCSP responses were only cached for 5 minutes, so most people weren't actually able to launch apps. After the incident, Apple increased the cache period to half a day.
    - pathartl 4y ago
      Ah yeah, I had the year off. At the time it knocked out my SO's entire company for a couple of hours.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
> A few years back there was this issue of MacOS apps launching with a delay because the OS was checking with Appe if you are allowed to use the app. IIRC, this was just a bug Convinced this is why Spotlight is so janky on iOS lately and you’ll be just staring at a blank list while searching for a local app.

personjerry 4y ago

The difference is that this article is an advertisement for the app they're selling.

janfoeh 4y ago
That is a pretty accusatory comment, given that the _freeware_ program mentioned is linked for download _right in TFA_.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
  [dead]
- fsflover 4y ago
  Freeware is not the same as free software. You can use the former for a bait and switch.
jamesfmilne 4y ago
They're not selling it, the app is free.
- favaq 4y ago
  They are not selling it currently. Once they have enough downloads and people who rely on the app on a daily basis, who knows.
  - bilekas 4y ago
    This assumes too much and isn't really fair to.
  - franzkappa 4y ago
    Just check the website and you’ll know. The website is well respected in the Mac world and their utilities are free since forever edit typos
  - sharikous 4y ago

vinaypai 4y ago

"I turned my WiFi off and nothing surprising happened" wouldn't make it to the front page of HN.

lapcat 4y ago
The author blogs almost every day about the Mac on his years-old Mac-oriented blog. The author doesn't write for HN readers, nor did he submit his blog post to HN. Why do the worst HN comments always rise to the top?
- joshuaissac 4y ago
  > The author doesn't write for HN readers, nor did he submit his blog post to HN. It does not follow from the GP comment's claim that the author must be writing for HN readers. There may be many articles written by many people about how the Mac works without a network connection, but this one happened to be the one to be posted to HN and make it to the front page because it has traits that are in line with what HN wants to read.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > It does not follow from the GP comment's claim that the author must be writing for HN readers. It seemed clear to me that the comment was a snide remark suggesting that the article was clickbait. Much like some of the other snide remarks on this submission, such as the sibling comment "The difference is that this article is an advertisement for the app they're selling." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35149157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35149157