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It's not just fish. The sheer number of animals that are slaughtered to produce meat for human consumption is absolutely mind-boggling. In addition to the fish

It's not just fish. The sheer number of animals that are slaughtered to produce meat for human consumption is absolutely mind-boggling. In addition to the fish, humans killed 72 billion chickens, 3.3 billion ducks, 1.3 billion pigs, over a half-billion geese, turkeys, rabbits, sheep, and goats (each!), over 300 million cattle, and over 70 million rodents for food in 2019 alone [1]. Animal agriculture overall generates more CO2 emissions than every automobile, ship, and airplane on Earth - more carbon than the entire transportation sector. An overwhelming majority of arable land on this planet is used to feed those animals, fated to death from birth, rather than humans - in many developing countries, humans starve while livestock are plumped for slaughter and export. [2]. 75% of historic deforestation in the Amazon, 55% of erosion, 60% of nitrogen pollution, and 44% of anthropogenic methane and nitrous oxide emissions (each) are a direct result of animal agriculture [3]. If you live in the US, like I do, it's not just the animals and the environment that suffer under animal agriculture. It's an open secret that undocumented children are exploited to work in slaughterhouses in this country [4] while politicians are actively rolling back protections for those exploited children [5] to ensure that boneless skinless chicken breasts stay cheap at WalMart. There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products, to make us feel righteous when we pay for corpses at the grocery store or restaurant. The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy. Of course, this does cause some difficulties in the modern context (especially in the US), but the trouble of learning to cook vegetables and seitan is nothing compared to the harm that animal agriculture causes to billions of humans and non-humans every year. (It also cured my high blood pressure and pre-diabetes in three months, but everyone knows vegetables are good for you :) [1] https://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#data/QCL https://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#data/QCL (https://web.archive.org/web/20211208184438/https://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#data/QCL https://web.archive.org/web/20211208184438/https://www.fao.o...) [2] https://www.colorado.edu/ecenter/2022/03/15/it-may-be-uncomfortable-we-need-talk-about-it-animal-agriculture-industry-and-zero-waste#:~:text=Animal%20agriculture%20produces%2065%25%20of,all%20the%20transportation%20emissions%20combined https://www.colorado.edu/ecenter/2022/03/15/it-may-be-uncomf.... [3] https://climatenexus.org/climate-issues/food/animal-agricultures-impact-on-climate-change/ https://climatenexus.org/climate-issues/food/animal-agricult... [4] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-find-100-children-cleaning-slaughterhouses-pssi-rcna71171 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-find-100-children-... [5] https://www.axios.com/local/nw-arkansas/2023/03/13/arkansas-roll-back-child-labor-protections https://www.axios.com/local/nw-arkansas/2023/03/13/arkansas-...

gambiting 4y ago
>>There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products Yeah I absolutely don't agree. I don't believe it can be done at scale - but it can be done. Watch a channel like Harry's Farm on youtube - guy basically has cattle on moors where nothing else could possibly grow - they just stay there all year, eat grass, then one day they get slaughtered. There is nothing about farming them this way that's unsustainable. >>The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy. I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself friend. We should be fighting against factory farming with all our might, and especially the US is a sad place when it comes to animal rights. But going out and saying it can't be done sustainably is a lie peddled by people who either literally can't imagine how it can be done, or who don't want to see it. I believe meat can be sustainably produced, but it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day because it's so cheap.
- myshpa 4y ago
  > I don't believe it can be done at scale Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total. > but it can be done We may also find farms where there are no animal inputs used. It can be done. > it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot. >> The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy > I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eati... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total. That sounds very different to "There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products" >>Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot. I agree. >>If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it. I absolutely do see the logic in it, but someone saying that the only way to solve this is by going vegan is no different than someone saying that the only way to solve global warming is to stop driving cars. Would that solve the problem? Of course it would. Are the chances of that happening greater than 0? No, they aren't. This isn't personal criticism of course - if you feel that going vegan is consistent with your logical and moral stance, please go ahead. But I don't think we should even pretend that veganism is the solution to this problem on a global scale, because I don't believe you would get anywhere near the required number of people on board with it. The steps that I think are far more realistic are - more sustainable animal husbandry, sharp rise in cost of meat to reflect its true cost(which will naturally reduce the amount of meat consumed), and yes, like you said - removal of artificial subsidies to those industries.

gambiting 4y ago

>>There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products Yeah I absolutely don't agree. I don't believe it can be done at scale - but it can be done. Watch a channel like Harry's Farm on youtube - guy basically has cattle on moors where nothing else could possibly grow - they just stay there all year, eat grass, then one day they get slaughtered. There is nothing about farming them this way that's unsustainable. >>The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy. I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself friend. We should be fighting against factory farming with all our might, and especially the US is a sad place when it comes to animal rights. But going out and saying it can't be done sustainably is a lie peddled by people who either literally can't imagine how it can be done, or who don't want to see it. I believe meat can be sustainably produced, but it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day because it's so cheap.

myshpa 4y ago
> I don't believe it can be done at scale Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total. > but it can be done We may also find farms where there are no animal inputs used. It can be done. > it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot. >> The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy > I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eati... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total. That sounds very different to "There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products" >>Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot. I agree. >>If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it. I absolutely do see the logic in it, but someone saying that the only way to solve this is by going vegan is no different than someone saying that the only way to solve global warming is to stop driving cars. Would that solve the problem? Of course it would. Are the chances of that happening greater than 0? No, they aren't. This isn't personal criticism of course - if you feel that going vegan is consistent with your logical and moral stance, please go ahead. But I don't think we should even pretend that veganism is the solution to this problem on a global scale, because I don't believe you would get anywhere near the required number of people on board with it. The steps that I think are far more realistic are - more sustainable animal husbandry, sharp rise in cost of meat to reflect its true cost(which will naturally reduce the amount of meat consumed), and yes, like you said - removal of artificial subsidies to those industries.