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22 EU states sign the ACTA ‘Internet censorship’ treaty

114 points by joejohnson 15y ago

rickmb 15y ago
It's time people realize who the supporters behind ACTA are. Here's one: http://www.inta.org/Press/Pages/EUsignsACTA.aspx http://www.inta.org/Press/Pages/EUsignsACTA.aspx INTA represents amongst others our good friends Rackspace, eBay, GoDaddy (surprise!), Yahoo, Microsoft, etcetera.
- kzrdude 15y ago
  American lobbyists had direct access to the drafting of the treaty while the european parliament was told it was secret for them due to national security issues. No comment necessary.
- fpp 15y ago
  Furthermore they are doing this with full knowledge that it is solely threatening civil rights / creates censorship and does not provide any real benefits or would otherwise be required. Out of the 27 EU states only 11 were recently able to fiddle / write up at least some minimal justification for the underlying data collections and storage that will then enable ACTA. Most of the countries did not even provide data back to the EU commission. See http://quintessenz.at/doqs/000100011699/2011_12_15,Eu_Commission_data_retention_reform.pdf http://quintessenz.at/doqs/000100011699/2011_12_15,Eu_Commis... for an official documentation of that. Like most of the times in history when such powers were "lawfully" provided to governments or special groups within society it might not be the government(s) bringing in such foul regulations it's the ones that follow after them who will fully exploit these unconstitutional measures. Let's hope that the Stop ACTA movement will take up speed and people will listen before these rules are ratified by the countries. Otherwise soon a very few will make some extra billions exploiting society while we all will pay with our civil rights, or freedom and certainly also with hundreds of billions of our monies.
fierarul 15y ago
I find it ironic that we had some Romanian sites go black in response to SOPA which was an US issue but today Romania signed ACTA and nobody did anything. http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/economy/i_property/acta1201.html http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/economy/i_property/acta1201.htm...
- bad_user 15y ago
  For what is worth, I contacted a few of our members of parliament - apparently with no success. All of them are a bunch of illiterate assholes anyway. UPDATE: in case you want to contact them too, here's the list ... http://bit.ly/AkFjG6 http://bit.ly/AkFjG6
creativityland 15y ago
Sigh...what is 2012, end of the internet?
- jaryd 15y ago
  The Mayans were right!!!</panic>
white_devil 15y ago
Our "leaders" are such fucking corrupt shitbags.. It's disgusting.
- bad_user 15y ago
  Either corrupt, or ass-kissing douches that have no idea why they are there. Many of them probably have no idea what they signed for. Sorry for the language, but I'm really pissed off that my country is on that list.
  - white_devil 15y ago
    > Either corrupt, or ass-kissing douches that have no idea why they are there. Sure they do - they're there for their own personal gain. The second-most important thing is the benefit of their "campaign contributors" - in other words: the companies/people that bribe them. My country is on the list too.
    - batista 15y ago
      So it's not the politicians "own personal gain" that is primarily behind of this, but the gain of companies/people. The politicians are just puppets for the men in power of the economy.
spdy 15y ago
There needs to be a better way to communicate this problem. http://www.stopacta.info/ http://www.stopacta.info/ has a lot of information but only for people who are interested in this matter will stay, everyone else just leaves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0 is something you can show around.
ergo14 15y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 - ACTA will NOT pass as of now since it's in validation of Basic Human Rights Bill, so it looks with exception of Poland and Czech EU is safe, but i have high hopes that our (polish) parliament will not ratify the document. So lets hope not everything is lost. http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/bert-knabe/2011-11-25/european-court-justice-internet-filtering-illegal#.TyGXlkDCQkA http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/bert-knabe/2011-... here are more sources on the matter
- sounds 15y ago
  Do you have any suggestions for what the internet can do? Those of us outside Poland and the Czech Republic?
  - ergo14 15y ago
    I'm not a lawyer only a humble developer, I think the only thing we can do in EU is to put pressure on EU parliament to not agree to the pact - that's all.
- tszyn 15y ago
  The blog post you linked says ACTA contains a three-strikes provision. That used to be true, but it isn't anymore. Just read the final text. Furthermore, I see nothing in ACTA that contradicts the ECJ ruling (ACTA does not say anything specific about ISP filtering) and I haven't seen any serious source claim that this ruling makes ACTA illegal.
- tszyn 15y ago
  This whole piece of news is total B.S. There is no last-minute ruling. There was a ruling of the ECJ on NOVEMBER 24, not January 24. See: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_16799/?annee=2011 http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_16799/?annee=2011 The reason for the confusion is that PAP (Polish Press Agency) reported this "news" today, giving the wrong date, and all the major news outlets re-reported it without checking (how hard is it to go to the ECJ website?). TVN24 has now published a correction, but the information has already spread and now many people think ACTA has been made illegal. The truth is that the ECJ has never made any ruling about ACTA. It has only ruled that ISP filtering is illegal in the EU, but that is not directly in contradiction with ACTA.
tzs 15y ago
ACTA is not an "internet censorship treaty". A very good analysis of what it ACTUALLY is was posted a few days ago on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the_final_version_of http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the...
- kiloaper 15y ago
  I question the 'expertise' of a random poster on the internet and the reasons they would go to such lengths (astroturfing does happen, especially with powerful lobbyists in play). I'm no lawyer but just glancing at their 'analysis' I spotted something which suggests they have little knowledge of EU law and practices, or simply chose to ignore it. They try and defend Article 11 with >Aha. If an ISP only keeps IP logs for a month, or doesn't do so at all, then the copyright holder is without any recourse. You can't hand over information you don't have. and again >whilst ISPs may be ordered to hand over information on infringers, there is nothing requiring them to gather information to do so, and there is a specific clause I guess they don't know about the Data Retention Directive (2006) then. Where I live in the EU ISPs keep data for the max 2 years.
h00k 15y ago
inb4revolutions
narrator 15y ago
The oligarchy in China is at least out in the open and nationalistic. In the west the oligarchy does everything in secret, their motives are largely unclear, and they keep everyone focused on culture war issues that never get resolved and celebrity like gossiping about politicians. Meanwhile, the lobbyists and the rest of the oligarchy write absurdly complex bills and pass them in obscurity. In Russia it's a bit of a hybrid of the western and eastern system.
- vacri 15y ago
  The meme of 'they're better because at least they admit they're an arsehole' needs to die.
  - jrockway 15y ago
    The meme of "The meme of ... needs to die" needs to die.
    - vacri 15y ago
      Then why use it in your rejoinder?
      - jrockway 15y ago
        Because recursive expansion is amusing. If this was Reddit, this thread would be at least ten comments long by now!
  - batista 15y ago
    It's a perfectly valid point of view (btw: point of view != argument). Everything else being equal, a well defined opponent is much easier to fight that a vague one, or one that presents itself as your friend.
    - vacri 15y ago
      But everything else isn't equal - the reason why 'their' governments can and 'our' governments can't is because it is so much worse there. It's silly saying that 'at least the chinese gov't is honest' because for a start it's not, and secondly because they already have the strongarm power to halt dissenting opinions. First-world countries generally have a ton of avenues to make your voice heard with some degree of fairness. Lauding China because the government already has such iron-fisted control that it can be more straightforward is just stupid.
orbitingpluto 15y ago
The thing about legislation like ACTA is that countries are often pressured by the US to put it into place. Then, with a wave of the hand, American politicians argue that, "we must get in step with the rest of the world."

114 points by joejohnson 15y ago

It's time people realize who the supporters behind ACTA are. Here's one: http://www.inta.org/Press/Pages/EUsignsACTA.aspx http://www.inta.org/Press/Pages/EUsignsACTA.aspx INTA represents amongst others our good friends Rackspace, eBay, GoDaddy (surprise!), Yahoo, Microsoft, etcetera.

kzrdude 15y ago
American lobbyists had direct access to the drafting of the treaty while the european parliament was told it was secret for them due to national security issues. No comment necessary.
fpp 15y ago
Furthermore they are doing this with full knowledge that it is solely threatening civil rights / creates censorship and does not provide any real benefits or would otherwise be required. Out of the 27 EU states only 11 were recently able to fiddle / write up at least some minimal justification for the underlying data collections and storage that will then enable ACTA. Most of the countries did not even provide data back to the EU commission. See http://quintessenz.at/doqs/000100011699/2011_12_15,Eu_Commission_data_retention_reform.pdf http://quintessenz.at/doqs/000100011699/2011_12_15,Eu_Commis... for an official documentation of that. Like most of the times in history when such powers were "lawfully" provided to governments or special groups within society it might not be the government(s) bringing in such foul regulations it's the ones that follow after them who will fully exploit these unconstitutional measures. Let's hope that the Stop ACTA movement will take up speed and people will listen before these rules are ratified by the countries. Otherwise soon a very few will make some extra billions exploiting society while we all will pay with our civil rights, or freedom and certainly also with hundreds of billions of our monies.

fierarul 15y ago

I find it ironic that we had some Romanian sites go black in response to SOPA which was an US issue but today Romania signed ACTA and nobody did anything. http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/economy/i_property/acta1201.html http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/economy/i_property/acta1201.htm...

bad_user 15y ago
For what is worth, I contacted a few of our members of parliament - apparently with no success. All of them are a bunch of illiterate assholes anyway. UPDATE: in case you want to contact them too, here's the list ... http://bit.ly/AkFjG6 http://bit.ly/AkFjG6

creativityland 15y ago

Sigh...what is 2012, end of the internet?

jaryd 15y ago
The Mayans were right!!!</panic>

white_devil 15y ago

Our "leaders" are such fucking corrupt shitbags.. It's disgusting.

bad_user 15y ago
Either corrupt, or ass-kissing douches that have no idea why they are there. Many of them probably have no idea what they signed for. Sorry for the language, but I'm really pissed off that my country is on that list.
- white_devil 15y ago
  > Either corrupt, or ass-kissing douches that have no idea why they are there. Sure they do - they're there for their own personal gain. The second-most important thing is the benefit of their "campaign contributors" - in other words: the companies/people that bribe them. My country is on the list too.
  - batista 15y ago
    So it's not the politicians "own personal gain" that is primarily behind of this, but the gain of companies/people. The politicians are just puppets for the men in power of the economy.

spdy 15y ago

There needs to be a better way to communicate this problem. http://www.stopacta.info/ http://www.stopacta.info/ has a lot of information but only for people who are interested in this matter will stay, everyone else just leaves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0 is something you can show around.

ergo14 15y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 - ACTA will NOT pass as of now since it's in validation of Basic Human Rights Bill, so it looks with exception of Poland and Czech EU is safe, but i have high hopes that our (polish) parliament will not ratify the document. So lets hope not everything is lost. http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/bert-knabe/2011-11-25/european-court-justice-internet-filtering-illegal#.TyGXlkDCQkA http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/bert-knabe/2011-... here are more sources on the matter

sounds 15y ago
Do you have any suggestions for what the internet can do? Those of us outside Poland and the Czech Republic?
- ergo14 15y ago
  I'm not a lawyer only a humble developer, I think the only thing we can do in EU is to put pressure on EU parliament to not agree to the pact - that's all.
tszyn 15y ago
The blog post you linked says ACTA contains a three-strikes provision. That used to be true, but it isn't anymore. Just read the final text. Furthermore, I see nothing in ACTA that contradicts the ECJ ruling (ACTA does not say anything specific about ISP filtering) and I haven't seen any serious source claim that this ruling makes ACTA illegal.
tszyn 15y ago
This whole piece of news is total B.S. There is no last-minute ruling. There was a ruling of the ECJ on NOVEMBER 24, not January 24. See: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_16799/?annee=2011 http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_16799/?annee=2011 The reason for the confusion is that PAP (Polish Press Agency) reported this "news" today, giving the wrong date, and all the major news outlets re-reported it without checking (how hard is it to go to the ECJ website?). TVN24 has now published a correction, but the information has already spread and now many people think ACTA has been made illegal. The truth is that the ECJ has never made any ruling about ACTA. It has only ruled that ISP filtering is illegal in the EU, but that is not directly in contradiction with ACTA.

tzs 15y ago

ACTA is not an "internet censorship treaty". A very good analysis of what it ACTUALLY is was posted a few days ago on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the_final_version_of http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the...

kiloaper 15y ago
I question the 'expertise' of a random poster on the internet and the reasons they would go to such lengths (astroturfing does happen, especially with powerful lobbyists in play). I'm no lawyer but just glancing at their 'analysis' I spotted something which suggests they have little knowledge of EU law and practices, or simply chose to ignore it. They try and defend Article 11 with >Aha. If an ISP only keeps IP logs for a month, or doesn't do so at all, then the copyright holder is without any recourse. You can't hand over information you don't have. and again >whilst ISPs may be ordered to hand over information on infringers, there is nothing requiring them to gather information to do so, and there is a specific clause I guess they don't know about the Data Retention Directive (2006) then. Where I live in the EU ISPs keep data for the max 2 years.

h00k 15y ago

inb4revolutions

narrator 15y ago

The oligarchy in China is at least out in the open and nationalistic. In the west the oligarchy does everything in secret, their motives are largely unclear, and they keep everyone focused on culture war issues that never get resolved and celebrity like gossiping about politicians. Meanwhile, the lobbyists and the rest of the oligarchy write absurdly complex bills and pass them in obscurity. In Russia it's a bit of a hybrid of the western and eastern system.

vacri 15y ago
The meme of 'they're better because at least they admit they're an arsehole' needs to die.
- jrockway 15y ago
  The meme of "The meme of ... needs to die" needs to die.
  - vacri 15y ago
    Then why use it in your rejoinder?
    - jrockway 15y ago
      Because recursive expansion is amusing. If this was Reddit, this thread would be at least ten comments long by now!
- batista 15y ago
  It's a perfectly valid point of view (btw: point of view != argument). Everything else being equal, a well defined opponent is much easier to fight that a vague one, or one that presents itself as your friend.
  - vacri 15y ago
    But everything else isn't equal - the reason why 'their' governments can and 'our' governments can't is because it is so much worse there. It's silly saying that 'at least the chinese gov't is honest' because for a start it's not, and secondly because they already have the strongarm power to halt dissenting opinions. First-world countries generally have a ton of avenues to make your voice heard with some degree of fairness. Lauding China because the government already has such iron-fisted control that it can be more straightforward is just stupid.

orbitingpluto 15y ago

The thing about legislation like ACTA is that countries are often pressured by the US to put it into place. Then, with a wave of the hand, American politicians argue that, "we must get in step with the rest of the world."