7 ms·

I think this discussion is a losing discussion, as history is recast as being strictly only one way. I could speak of the stories I heard on Thursday from a his

I think this discussion is a losing discussion, as history is recast as being strictly only one way. I could speak of the stories I heard on Thursday from a historian down here, but people would instantly discount it. It very much reflects our current times, where all is seen as either white or black, but nothing seen as a shade of gray. Polarization has benefitted no side, in any debate.

jfengel 4y ago
Polarization benefits both sides. It just doesn't benefit the truth. Sometimes one side or the other is on the side of truth, but even then, the other side benefits from the uncertainty. The further they are from that position the greater the relative benefit. If there's even the slightest hint of gray they benefit even more. Representing the middle is a pure loss. Both sides benefit from the clarity of their positions and the ability to commit. Usually both sides will assume your are on one or the other, and both benefit from that. One side gets a slight advantage from your numbers. The other benefits more from painting you as the enemy who will stop and nothing to destroy you and must be stopped at all costs. Reality, it turns out, is badly overrated.
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  It can be quite lonely and frustrating having any centrist views, for many of the reasons you mention. Many assumptions made merely on the basis of hearing but one view. The hive mentality is two sides of the same coin, but I don't think anyone is incentivized to change it.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    Keep sharing your centrists views. Independents are the largest political bloc in the country at over 40% of voters. Partisans are not convincing, they are just loud and have representation. Everyone knows the ways in which both sides are different, we are frustrated by the ways in which they are the same, and that is valid too. Keep sharing, we’re watching. You’re not alone, we are actually more numerous than them.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      Independents are technically unaffiliated, but they often vote for the same party in election after election. They may claim to be put off by partisan rhetoric, but it's usually effective at scaring them away from one party or the other. They may choose not to vote, but it's rare that they are truly centrist. The "swing voter" has been called a "myth" for well over a decade, e.g. http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/unpublished/swing_voters.pdf http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/unpublished/sw...
      - yieldcrv 4y ago
        Yes, after being presented with ridiculous choices chosen almost exclusively by partisans. All states/parties now need to let independents vote in their primary elections, and the choices will smooth out. A couple states do already.
    - usefulcat 4y ago
      I don't think it's only a matter of partisans being louder, it's that partisanship is easier. Seeing only one side of an issue is always easier, in the same way that empathizing with only one of two (or more) sides of a dispute is much easier.
themitigating 4y ago
What are the shades of gray of racism or slavery?
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  The shades of gray are blacks and whites living in unison in many rural parts of the south in the time period in which these pictures were set. They lived together in poverty in many of these rural areas. The historian I spoke of mentioned this. He could back it up with pictures of them co-mingling extensively. Is it to say no racism existed in that time period? Hardly. But far too often I've seen it painted that the south is deeply racist to this day. Generally I only tend to hear it from people who have never been. I say this as someone originally from the north.
  - l3mure 4y ago
    The south is indeed still deeply racist. I lived in Charleston SC for several years and was exposed to plenty of it. People like Dylan Roof and the McMichael family don't come out of nowhere. Doesn't mean there aren't Black and white people who do get along.
  - etchalon 4y ago
    My wife and I were married in Clarksdale, MS, at the Shack Up Inn. We had several people of color in our wedding. While were told in no uncertain terms to avoid the local haunts, our party didn't. Things didn't go great.
    - sacrosancty 4y ago
      [dead]
  - jjulius 4y ago
    Lived in Georgia for six years. I'd say something like, "Venture out of any metro area and you'll see it,", but even that's being generous. I'm sure it's progress compared to times past, but it's still got a way to go.

jfengel 4y ago

Polarization benefits both sides. It just doesn't benefit the truth. Sometimes one side or the other is on the side of truth, but even then, the other side benefits from the uncertainty. The further they are from that position the greater the relative benefit. If there's even the slightest hint of gray they benefit even more. Representing the middle is a pure loss. Both sides benefit from the clarity of their positions and the ability to commit. Usually both sides will assume your are on one or the other, and both benefit from that. One side gets a slight advantage from your numbers. The other benefits more from painting you as the enemy who will stop and nothing to destroy you and must be stopped at all costs. Reality, it turns out, is badly overrated.

AviationAtom 4y ago
It can be quite lonely and frustrating having any centrist views, for many of the reasons you mention. Many assumptions made merely on the basis of hearing but one view. The hive mentality is two sides of the same coin, but I don't think anyone is incentivized to change it.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  Keep sharing your centrists views. Independents are the largest political bloc in the country at over 40% of voters. Partisans are not convincing, they are just loud and have representation. Everyone knows the ways in which both sides are different, we are frustrated by the ways in which they are the same, and that is valid too. Keep sharing, we’re watching. You’re not alone, we are actually more numerous than them.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    Independents are technically unaffiliated, but they often vote for the same party in election after election. They may claim to be put off by partisan rhetoric, but it's usually effective at scaring them away from one party or the other. They may choose not to vote, but it's rare that they are truly centrist. The "swing voter" has been called a "myth" for well over a decade, e.g. http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/unpublished/swing_voters.pdf http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/unpublished/sw...
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      Yes, after being presented with ridiculous choices chosen almost exclusively by partisans. All states/parties now need to let independents vote in their primary elections, and the choices will smooth out. A couple states do already.
  - usefulcat 4y ago
    I don't think it's only a matter of partisans being louder, it's that partisanship is easier. Seeing only one side of an issue is always easier, in the same way that empathizing with only one of two (or more) sides of a dispute is much easier.

themitigating 4y ago

What are the shades of gray of racism or slavery?

AviationAtom 4y ago
The shades of gray are blacks and whites living in unison in many rural parts of the south in the time period in which these pictures were set. They lived together in poverty in many of these rural areas. The historian I spoke of mentioned this. He could back it up with pictures of them co-mingling extensively. Is it to say no racism existed in that time period? Hardly. But far too often I've seen it painted that the south is deeply racist to this day. Generally I only tend to hear it from people who have never been. I say this as someone originally from the north.
- l3mure 4y ago
  The south is indeed still deeply racist. I lived in Charleston SC for several years and was exposed to plenty of it. People like Dylan Roof and the McMichael family don't come out of nowhere. Doesn't mean there aren't Black and white people who do get along.
- etchalon 4y ago
  My wife and I were married in Clarksdale, MS, at the Shack Up Inn. We had several people of color in our wedding. While were told in no uncertain terms to avoid the local haunts, our party didn't. Things didn't go great.
  - sacrosancty 4y ago
    [dead]
- jjulius 4y ago
  Lived in Georgia for six years. I'd say something like, "Venture out of any metro area and you'll see it,", but even that's being generous. I'm sure it's progress compared to times past, but it's still got a way to go.