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> Nearly all of our savings has gone to funding companies that do a thing that existed, but on the internet, rather than funding real innovation. Man, if my mo

> Nearly all of our savings has gone to funding companies that do a thing that existed, but on the internet, rather than funding real innovation. Man, if my money was forcibly tied up in some bullshit pension fund that mainly invests in VCs, I would be pissed, too. Investment should be controlled by the people whose money it is. Corporate 401k plans are much more flexible which is probably why we have such a difference of opinion here. I am a public market investor only. If I had the capital and the time to diversify maybe only then would I consider private markets. > If it was true innovation, the world wouldn't be becoming a worse place every day that SV was essentially handed the keys. Our kids wouldn't be more depressed, climate change would be addressed, public health crises would be solved I disagree here. The world sucked in these same ways before the internet and it will continue to suck after. True innovation from the government's perspective is increasing its control of citizens and the efficiency of their labor by any means necessary.

yunwal 4y ago
> True innovation from the government's perspective is increasing its control of citizens and the efficiency of their labor by any means necessary. I'd be curious how you justify this when the U.S. (largely agreed-upon to be the most corporate-friendly first-world country over the past 50 years or so) has the largest police-state, prison population, military, etc etc etc. Other economies where the government isn't essentially an arm of the corporate world are much freer. It's almost as if when governments are actually democratically elected (rather than representatives being filtered through the money primary), governments tend to represent the interests of the people.
- deleted 4y ago
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- nottathrowaway3 4y ago
  > I'd be curious how you justify this when the U.S. (largely agreed-upon to be the most corporate-friendly first-world country over the past 50 years or so) has the largest police-state, prison population, military, etc etc etc The U.S. has been the leader in all those lovely statistics long before tech became the biggest thing in the economy. I think you missed my point. I simply don't believe in fetishizing "true" (and therefore "untrue") innovation. We live in a messy world. Innovation is just a culturally-loaded way to describe people optimizing things. I miss the 90s and 00s too, man. Also I agree with you.
  - yunwal 4y ago
    > I simply don't believe in fetishizing "true" (and therefore "untrue") innovation. I don’t think there’s a hard obvious line, but if I invent a machine that can take $1 from every other American’s wallet and put it into mine I am quite comfortable calling that “untrue” innovation. When thousands of companies have opaque versions of this business model, you notice it on a macro level
    - nottathrowaway3 4y ago
      That is literally every business in history. The innovation is how they choose to get that dollar.
      - yunwal 4y ago
        No some businesses do things like create value. You can take a dollar or you can sell something worth a dollar. Those are not the same When DoorDash puts themselves as a delivery service front end for restaurants without them knowing, and then raises the prices, that is simply legally stealing money. The restaurant, on the other hand, actually sells something of value.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        nottathrowaway3 4y ago
        If they don't create value, why do people pay for it? And by your logic, isn't Google doing the same thing for website owners. There's more nuance to these issues that you suggest. The U.S. government is investing in tech for various legitimate strategic reasons you can read about. Government bureaucracies historically fail to produce (or contract) good products for reasons you can observe by working at one (or by reading Dilbert). Many tertiary sector businesses are indeed just middlemen but still create value in a more complex way. I get it that tech can be criticized in the way you're doing it. This discussion had been had thousands of times on this site. I have nothing to contribute besides what I already said, and even all of that had probably been said thousands of times as well.

yunwal 4y ago

> True innovation from the government's perspective is increasing its control of citizens and the efficiency of their labor by any means necessary. I'd be curious how you justify this when the U.S. (largely agreed-upon to be the most corporate-friendly first-world country over the past 50 years or so) has the largest police-state, prison population, military, etc etc etc. Other economies where the government isn't essentially an arm of the corporate world are much freer. It's almost as if when governments are actually democratically elected (rather than representatives being filtered through the money primary), governments tend to represent the interests of the people.

deleted 4y ago
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nottathrowaway3 4y ago
> I'd be curious how you justify this when the U.S. (largely agreed-upon to be the most corporate-friendly first-world country over the past 50 years or so) has the largest police-state, prison population, military, etc etc etc The U.S. has been the leader in all those lovely statistics long before tech became the biggest thing in the economy. I think you missed my point. I simply don't believe in fetishizing "true" (and therefore "untrue") innovation. We live in a messy world. Innovation is just a culturally-loaded way to describe people optimizing things. I miss the 90s and 00s too, man. Also I agree with you.
- yunwal 4y ago
  > I simply don't believe in fetishizing "true" (and therefore "untrue") innovation. I don’t think there’s a hard obvious line, but if I invent a machine that can take $1 from every other American’s wallet and put it into mine I am quite comfortable calling that “untrue” innovation. When thousands of companies have opaque versions of this business model, you notice it on a macro level
  - nottathrowaway3 4y ago
    That is literally every business in history. The innovation is how they choose to get that dollar.
    - yunwal 4y ago
      No some businesses do things like create value. You can take a dollar or you can sell something worth a dollar. Those are not the same When DoorDash puts themselves as a delivery service front end for restaurants without them knowing, and then raises the prices, that is simply legally stealing money. The restaurant, on the other hand, actually sells something of value.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - nottathrowaway3 4y ago
        If they don't create value, why do people pay for it? And by your logic, isn't Google doing the same thing for website owners. There's more nuance to these issues that you suggest. The U.S. government is investing in tech for various legitimate strategic reasons you can read about. Government bureaucracies historically fail to produce (or contract) good products for reasons you can observe by working at one (or by reading Dilbert). Many tertiary sector businesses are indeed just middlemen but still create value in a more complex way. I get it that tech can be criticized in the way you're doing it. This discussion had been had thousands of times on this site. I have nothing to contribute besides what I already said, and even all of that had probably been said thousands of times as well.