4 ms·

Poles Take anti-ACTA Protests to the Streets

154 points by llambda 15y ago

hastur 15y ago
You can read more about the Polish eruption here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 And here's some more footage from the protests: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3511980 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3511980
sp332 15y ago
I thought I should surface this comment by "sado" from that page: Also, the statement “We must sign ACTA and not give in to blackmail" was taken out of context (the context: Anonymous, who DDOSed Polish govt sites, threatened to release personal data of minister Boni and to DDOS moar, if Polish govt signs the ACTA... that could be called "blackmail").
- hastur 15y ago
  The "blackmail" fragment isn't just out of context, it's plain misleading. It suggests that the PM treats street protests as blackmail, when in fact the PM was referring to statements from "hackers" that said they will release official docs stolen from govt servers if the govt signs ACTA.
- JumpCrisscross 15y ago
  Does Anonymous's association net help or hurt the anti-ACTA position? And historically, did it help or hurt anti-SOPA/PIPA? I generally took what they do as being emotionally gratifying but having zero real impact, but by giving the un-informed but not necessarily malicious (and potentially the intentionally malevolent spinsters) an easy way to justify onerous regulation, I think they may be hurting the causes they ostensibly back in the long-run.
  - tszyn 15y ago
    It's hard to say what the net effect is. It's true that such attacks give the government an effective, if fallacious, argument: "we cannot give in to blackmail". On the other hand, large-scale media coverage started only after the Anonymous hacked the government websites. Before the attacks, the Polish media were not interested in ACTA. This in turn helped mobilize politicians from opposition parties and, I think, also the protesters.
ergo14 15y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 - ACTA will NOT pass as of now since it's in validation of Basic Human Rights Bill, so it looks with exception of Poland and Czech EU is safe, but i have high hopes that our (polish) parliament will not ratify the document.
pfraze 15y ago
I read a summary that a redditor wrote maybe... a week back. It didn't seem that bad. What's the controversy?
- mcrittenden 15y ago
  Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the_final_version_of_acta_heres_what_you/ http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the...
- tszyn 15y ago
  It fossilizes a framework of copyright laws that was created before the Internet. Each country that signs ACTA commits itself to preserving the existing system of intellectual property protection, which many consider to be antiquated and out of touch with the digital world. It ensures that no alternative ideas for managing intellectual property will arise in those countries, which is of course the goal of the United States government and the rightsholders that lobbied for this treaty. In addition to limiting the flexibility of individual countries without giving them anything in return (other than a pat on the back from Uncle Sam), ACTA contains a number of vague provisions that could lead to more stringent IP regulations. For example: "ordering the alleged infringer (...) to provide information on any persons (...) involved in any aspect of the infringement" (notice the broad scope) "endeavoring to promote cooperative efforts within the business community to effectively address trademark and copyright or related rights infringement" ("encouraging" ISPs to "voluntarily" cut off users?). ACTA also contains provisions that go beyond what is currently law in many of the countries that are about to sign it. For example, it introduces broader anti-circumvention laws that are currently in effect in Poland. It also provides that prosecutors must be able to act out of their own initiative (ex officio) on copyright cases -- even if the rightsholder does not complain.
zalew 15y ago
looks like ACTA's potential enforcement on ISPs to implement content filtering can't be applied in EU countries that adopted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_o... Can't find an English source: http://goo.gl/sVQUN http://goo.gl/sVQUN (translated from Polish)
hastur 15y ago
Third night of protests in progress. Some photos and vids from what's happening right now in the city of Poznan: http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1732237,0,1,lublin-i-poznan-kolejny-dzien-protestow-przeciw-acta,wiadomosc.html http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1732237,0,1,lublin-i-poznan-kolejny-dz... And a fun nugget: members of parliament displaying Guy Fawkes masks in the Parliament: http://www.tvn24.pl/0,2497368,0,0,1,1,,poslowie-palikota-w-sejmie-pap,galeriamax.html http://www.tvn24.pl/0,2497368,0,0,1,1,,poslowie-palikota-w-s... Note: these are just the MPs from the populist party Ruch Palikota. Clearly trying to win some votes of the protesting youth,
denysonique 15y ago
I am lucky to be right now in Poland visiting my GF. I took a some videos of todays ACTA protest in Poznan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLSSUV4P_d4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLSSUV4P_d4 More videos will appear on my YouTube channel
test1663 15y ago
Protests are big in Poland because they are very poor and 90% of people downloads everything from the Internet. Deleting Pirate Bay, Rapidshare. Youtube and Megaupload would stop most people from accessing any cultural goods: music, films, software. Unlike India etc, average Pole has enough money for good PC or notebook and good internet connection, but not yet enough to pay for software. Nobody uses Steam or Itunes, paying for software is just laughable. Except for businesses - they must be legal.
- adambyrtek 15y ago
  I'm sorry, but this is just a load of bullshit. GDP per capita in Poland is 46th in the world (comparing to 127th position of India), it has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, and one of few that were immune to the recent economic crisis. If you want more information, you can find it on the web[1]. It's true that in the early nineties, just after the fall of communist regime, intellectual property wasn't regulated and piracy was sprawling, but a lot has changed since then. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland
  - test1663 15y ago
    Yes, I said enough money for good hardware but not for software. Why nobody uses Iphone, Xbox, Playstation, Gamecube in Poland? Because it is hard to jailbreak and pirate. I know someone who bought Mac from UK. Disk wasn't erased, there were hundreds of mp3s in Itunes and some apps. And we all thought it is a computer from an abosolutely crazy richman.
    - kisielk 15y ago
      That's plain BS. When I was in Warsaw in December and iPhones were everywhere. During the holiday season I saw tons of people buying legitimate non-pirated music, movies, and games at stores like EMPIK. In fact after the new year when I went to buy some albums it was hard to sort through what was left on the shelves because so much of the stock had been cleared out and made a mess of in the holiday buying rush. It's true that a lot of people in Poland may be income limited due to low wages, but I think making it seem like everyone there pirates everything because that's the only way to get it is totally wrong.
click170 15y ago
3 cheers for the Polish people for standing up for yourselves! A diminishing quality in today's society.
rgrieselhuber 15y ago
At the end of the day, Poland is highly dependent on support from the US, as they are positioned between Russia and Germany.
- NinetyNine 15y ago
  How is this an issue in this day and age?
  - hastur 15y ago
    Poland is in NATO so the threat from Russia is vastly overestimated. Poland is also a great friend of Germany.
- ajuc 15y ago
  Germany trade with Poland is greater than Germany trade with Russia. Germany is in NATO, like Poland. Germany is in EU, like Poland. Germany uses Poland as a "closer China" to boost its industry and export with cheaper labour. No danger from Germany to Poland. Russia is another matter, because it is not really democratic country. But full blown war - I don't think it's possible today. And USA don't give a shit about Poland for last 10 years or so, anyway. I don't think we should be nice to USA in ACTA matter.

154 points by llambda 15y ago

You can read more about the Polish eruption here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 And here's some more footage from the protests: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3511980 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3511980

sp332 15y ago

I thought I should surface this comment by "sado" from that page: Also, the statement “We must sign ACTA and not give in to blackmail" was taken out of context (the context: Anonymous, who DDOSed Polish govt sites, threatened to release personal data of minister Boni and to DDOS moar, if Polish govt signs the ACTA... that could be called "blackmail").

hastur 15y ago
The "blackmail" fragment isn't just out of context, it's plain misleading. It suggests that the PM treats street protests as blackmail, when in fact the PM was referring to statements from "hackers" that said they will release official docs stolen from govt servers if the govt signs ACTA.
JumpCrisscross 15y ago
Does Anonymous's association net help or hurt the anti-ACTA position? And historically, did it help or hurt anti-SOPA/PIPA? I generally took what they do as being emotionally gratifying but having zero real impact, but by giving the un-informed but not necessarily malicious (and potentially the intentionally malevolent spinsters) an easy way to justify onerous regulation, I think they may be hurting the causes they ostensibly back in the long-run.
- tszyn 15y ago
  It's hard to say what the net effect is. It's true that such attacks give the government an effective, if fallacious, argument: "we cannot give in to blackmail". On the other hand, large-scale media coverage started only after the Anonymous hacked the government websites. Before the attacks, the Polish media were not interested in ACTA. This in turn helped mobilize politicians from opposition parties and, I think, also the protesters.

ergo14 15y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3514232 - ACTA will NOT pass as of now since it's in validation of Basic Human Rights Bill, so it looks with exception of Poland and Czech EU is safe, but i have high hopes that our (polish) parliament will not ratify the document.

pfraze 15y ago

I read a summary that a redditor wrote maybe... a week back. It didn't seem that bad. What's the controversy?

mcrittenden 15y ago
Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the_final_version_of_acta_heres_what_you/ http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/or8ag/ive_read_the...
tszyn 15y ago
It fossilizes a framework of copyright laws that was created before the Internet. Each country that signs ACTA commits itself to preserving the existing system of intellectual property protection, which many consider to be antiquated and out of touch with the digital world. It ensures that no alternative ideas for managing intellectual property will arise in those countries, which is of course the goal of the United States government and the rightsholders that lobbied for this treaty. In addition to limiting the flexibility of individual countries without giving them anything in return (other than a pat on the back from Uncle Sam), ACTA contains a number of vague provisions that could lead to more stringent IP regulations. For example: "ordering the alleged infringer (...) to provide information on any persons (...) involved in any aspect of the infringement" (notice the broad scope) "endeavoring to promote cooperative efforts within the business community to effectively address trademark and copyright or related rights infringement" ("encouraging" ISPs to "voluntarily" cut off users?). ACTA also contains provisions that go beyond what is currently law in many of the countries that are about to sign it. For example, it introduces broader anti-circumvention laws that are currently in effect in Poland. It also provides that prosecutors must be able to act out of their own initiative (ex officio) on copyright cases -- even if the rightsholder does not complain.

zalew 15y ago

looks like ACTA's potential enforcement on ISPs to implement content filtering can't be applied in EU countries that adopted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_o... Can't find an English source: http://goo.gl/sVQUN http://goo.gl/sVQUN (translated from Polish)

hastur 15y ago

Third night of protests in progress. Some photos and vids from what's happening right now in the city of Poznan: http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1732237,0,1,lublin-i-poznan-kolejny-dzien-protestow-przeciw-acta,wiadomosc.html http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1732237,0,1,lublin-i-poznan-kolejny-dz... And a fun nugget: members of parliament displaying Guy Fawkes masks in the Parliament: http://www.tvn24.pl/0,2497368,0,0,1,1,,poslowie-palikota-w-sejmie-pap,galeriamax.html http://www.tvn24.pl/0,2497368,0,0,1,1,,poslowie-palikota-w-s... Note: these are just the MPs from the populist party Ruch Palikota. Clearly trying to win some votes of the protesting youth,

denysonique 15y ago

I am lucky to be right now in Poland visiting my GF. I took a some videos of todays ACTA protest in Poznan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLSSUV4P_d4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLSSUV4P_d4 More videos will appear on my YouTube channel

test1663 15y ago

Protests are big in Poland because they are very poor and 90% of people downloads everything from the Internet. Deleting Pirate Bay, Rapidshare. Youtube and Megaupload would stop most people from accessing any cultural goods: music, films, software. Unlike India etc, average Pole has enough money for good PC or notebook and good internet connection, but not yet enough to pay for software. Nobody uses Steam or Itunes, paying for software is just laughable. Except for businesses - they must be legal.

adambyrtek 15y ago
I'm sorry, but this is just a load of bullshit. GDP per capita in Poland is 46th in the world (comparing to 127th position of India), it has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, and one of few that were immune to the recent economic crisis. If you want more information, you can find it on the web[1]. It's true that in the early nineties, just after the fall of communist regime, intellectual property wasn't regulated and piracy was sprawling, but a lot has changed since then. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland
- test1663 15y ago
  Yes, I said enough money for good hardware but not for software. Why nobody uses Iphone, Xbox, Playstation, Gamecube in Poland? Because it is hard to jailbreak and pirate. I know someone who bought Mac from UK. Disk wasn't erased, there were hundreds of mp3s in Itunes and some apps. And we all thought it is a computer from an abosolutely crazy richman.
  - kisielk 15y ago
    That's plain BS. When I was in Warsaw in December and iPhones were everywhere. During the holiday season I saw tons of people buying legitimate non-pirated music, movies, and games at stores like EMPIK. In fact after the new year when I went to buy some albums it was hard to sort through what was left on the shelves because so much of the stock had been cleared out and made a mess of in the holiday buying rush. It's true that a lot of people in Poland may be income limited due to low wages, but I think making it seem like everyone there pirates everything because that's the only way to get it is totally wrong.

click170 15y ago

3 cheers for the Polish people for standing up for yourselves! A diminishing quality in today's society.

rgrieselhuber 15y ago

At the end of the day, Poland is highly dependent on support from the US, as they are positioned between Russia and Germany.

NinetyNine 15y ago
How is this an issue in this day and age?
- hastur 15y ago
  Poland is in NATO so the threat from Russia is vastly overestimated. Poland is also a great friend of Germany.
ajuc 15y ago
Germany trade with Poland is greater than Germany trade with Russia. Germany is in NATO, like Poland. Germany is in EU, like Poland. Germany uses Poland as a "closer China" to boost its industry and export with cheaper labour. No danger from Germany to Poland. Russia is another matter, because it is not really democratic country. But full blown war - I don't think it's possible today. And USA don't give a shit about Poland for last 10 years or so, anyway. I don't think we should be nice to USA in ACTA matter.