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> Like Larry Page and Serguei Brin before him, Moxie Marlinspike built the oppression tool he was initially trying to fight This hyperbole exposes that the aut

> Like Larry Page and Serguei Brin before him, Moxie Marlinspike built the oppression tool he was initially trying to fight This hyperbole exposes that the author is out of touch with the real world stakes of mass surveillance which Signal is intended to address. You are not being oppressed because you can't run Signal on a quirky e-ink phone. Signal isn't broken on your phone because the Signal Foundation wants to exploit you, it's broken because building software is hard and sometimes requires pragmatic compromises. Yes, decentralization is an important principle, both technically and politically. It's worth advocating for. But it's not the answer to every question ever.

soiler 4y ago
The common criticisms of Signal to me often come down to letting perfect be the enemy of good. Yes, I want a perfectly secure and private messaging app, but Signal is an incredibly important stepping stone in that direction. It's moving the Overton window.
- izacus 4y ago
  Except that it doesn't seem to be better than existing Whatsapp in any way? They even use the same protocol and it barely made a dent in WhatsApps market share. Outside the small % that rejects Meta... Who is it for and how exactly is it reaching it's objectives?
  - abdullahkhalids 4y ago
    Its for those who reject Meta. No one else. People who want to disconnect from the surveillance-advertisement network of Meta. Remember that Meta likely uses your Whatsapp contacts web for its advertisements elsewhere. Signal does not.
    - warkdarrior 4y ago
      > Remember that Meta likely uses your Whatsapp contacts web for its advertisements elsewhere. Signal does not. Signal does not uses your contacts web elsewhere, that you know of.
      - Nextgrid 4y ago
        Signal has less incentive and ability to do so than Facebook/Meta, so all else being equal, the former still deserves more trust.
    - izacus 4y ago
      That doesn't match what tptacek said though - it seems like Signal wants to be bigger while refusing to actually be better as a product.
  - akvadrako 4y ago
    Even if Whatsapp was as good as Signal, Signal would have been the stepping stone. Signal developed the protocol first and assisted Whatsapp in adopting it.
  - glenngillen 4y ago
    Projecting from personal anecdote here, but... my social circles have almost no intersection with my life in tech. They are not "tech people". Yet I have only a single contact that still messages me via WhatsApp. Everyone else and all of the groups I'm in moved to Signal.
    - batiudrami 4y ago
      Mine too, but I think we’re uncommon. Far more people use WhatsApp than Signal. On the plus side; existing familiarity with WhatsApp makes moving to Signal easy to understand for people as they are very similar apps.
college_physics 4y ago
Well said. While its good to surface the challenges diverse people face and hopefully think about patterns that will solve them in efficient, systemic ways, the availability of Signal at the moment of time is of vital importance. Same, e.g. with Mastodon as a Twitter replacement. It something working, that normal people can migrate to and break the stanglehold of the true oppressive platforms. No harm to keep expectations high for those "alternatives", but lets keep a sense of proportion.

soiler 4y ago

The common criticisms of Signal to me often come down to letting perfect be the enemy of good. Yes, I want a perfectly secure and private messaging app, but Signal is an incredibly important stepping stone in that direction. It's moving the Overton window.

izacus 4y ago
Except that it doesn't seem to be better than existing Whatsapp in any way? They even use the same protocol and it barely made a dent in WhatsApps market share. Outside the small % that rejects Meta... Who is it for and how exactly is it reaching it's objectives?
- abdullahkhalids 4y ago
  Its for those who reject Meta. No one else. People who want to disconnect from the surveillance-advertisement network of Meta. Remember that Meta likely uses your Whatsapp contacts web for its advertisements elsewhere. Signal does not.
  - warkdarrior 4y ago
    > Remember that Meta likely uses your Whatsapp contacts web for its advertisements elsewhere. Signal does not. Signal does not uses your contacts web elsewhere, that you know of.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      Signal has less incentive and ability to do so than Facebook/Meta, so all else being equal, the former still deserves more trust.
  - izacus 4y ago
    That doesn't match what tptacek said though - it seems like Signal wants to be bigger while refusing to actually be better as a product.
- akvadrako 4y ago
  Even if Whatsapp was as good as Signal, Signal would have been the stepping stone. Signal developed the protocol first and assisted Whatsapp in adopting it.
- glenngillen 4y ago
  Projecting from personal anecdote here, but... my social circles have almost no intersection with my life in tech. They are not "tech people". Yet I have only a single contact that still messages me via WhatsApp. Everyone else and all of the groups I'm in moved to Signal.
  - batiudrami 4y ago
    Mine too, but I think we’re uncommon. Far more people use WhatsApp than Signal. On the plus side; existing familiarity with WhatsApp makes moving to Signal easy to understand for people as they are very similar apps.

college_physics 4y ago

Well said. While its good to surface the challenges diverse people face and hopefully think about patterns that will solve them in efficient, systemic ways, the availability of Signal at the moment of time is of vital importance. Same, e.g. with Mastodon as a Twitter replacement. It something working, that normal people can migrate to and break the stanglehold of the true oppressive platforms. No harm to keep expectations high for those "alternatives", but lets keep a sense of proportion.