7 ms·

It's strange seeing this post describe heat pumps as if they're a new thing, and everyone commenting as if they are. I live in New Zealand and heat pumps have

by Nition 4y ago

It's strange seeing this post describe heat pumps as if they're a new thing, and everyone commenting as if they are. I live in New Zealand and heat pumps have been standard in new builds for just about 20 years now. They're great. If you want to add one to your home you can call up various companies to do it for reasonable prices (not sure how this stacks up against US prices, but I recently had a small 2.5kW cool/3.2kW heat mini split heat pump installed in my office room for $1,200USD including labour). It helps that we have relatively mild seasons, with it getting just a little too cold in winter and a little too hot in summer - pretty much the ideal environment for a heat pump. I have never seen a residential home in NZ with a furnace or a pure air conditioner (that can't also heat). The standard installed system before heat pumps was a wood fire or sometimes gas heaters. In summer you just put up with being hot. Re smart thermostats, I've been in many homes with heat pumps and never seen one. Everyone just uses the controls in the heat pump remote. They all have the option to cool to a certain temp, heat to a certain temp, stay at a certain temp, and set a start/stop time. Basic but generally good enough. Re ducted systems, my experience is they never seem quite as efficient or effective as just installing two totally separate mini split systems. Which is also usually cheaper and has the added bonus that you can only run one if you're not in the other part of the house. Looking at your wall unit, it looks really nice, but can that front face tilt to blow air either up or down?

thaeli 4y ago
I'm in the US and have had a heat pump for 15 years. It was a fairly small cost add from a straight cool. I get this depends on region, especially for the older units, but I never understood why they were such a hard sell even in mild heating climates. Ironically, I bought this system because at the time natural gas looked like it would be becoming more expensive more quickly than electricity in my area. Since the cost delta was small, and I don't think it made my total monthly utility bills any higher, no big deal, but I might not have even bothered with a heat pump if I'd known about the fracking boom at the time. (I'm also fortunate enough to live in a state with powerful utility regulators, so electricity prices never spiralled like they did in "deregulation" areas.)
- kevstev 4y ago
  Interestingly, I am in the middle of replacing my HVAC which died last fall. I was dead set on getting a heat pump. I didn't really care about the increased upfront cost, so long as I was getting increased comfort and there would be a reduction in costs after install. When I really looked at the numbers though, my cost of electricity is so high, and my natural gas is so cheap, that I would need a COP of over 5 or an HSPF of around 20 on the heat pump to just break even on heating- I pay about 16.5 cents per KWH for electricity all in, and $1.05/therm for natural gas in NJ just outside of NYC. Efficiencies that high don't exist on central units. It would cost me easily an extra $100/month to heat my home, and the additional upfront cost was $7-10k. In cooling mode they are slightly less efficient than the best AC units as well, not by a significant amount- but its not like it will make up for it on the cooling side of things. I really wanted to go this route, but this would be an extra upfront as well as ongoing cost. I really have no option but to replace with a conventional system and in 10-15 years re-evaluate. I will likely eventually get solar, but my roof is currently close to, but not yet at its end of life, and I have a townhome with limited roof space and a historic district to contend with, its not going to solve the electricity cost problem.
dang 4y ago
Heat pump passion is kind of a thing for some reason! 200-year old heat pump technology is back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34846762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34846762 - Feb 2023 (205 comments) How a heat pump works - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34739375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34739375 - Feb 2023 (324 comments) Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34708161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34708161 - Feb 2023 (174 comments) Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34397715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34397715 - Jan 2023 (477 comments) Do heat pumps work in cold climates? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34352309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34352309 - Jan 2023 (326 comments) French startup unveils new residential thermo-acoustic heat pump - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34233719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34233719 - Jan 2023 (219 comments) US companies are producing heat pumps that work below -20F - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34160672 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34160672 - Dec 2022 (330 comments) Heat pumps are now mandatory in new homes in Washington State - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33589627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33589627 - Nov 2022 (48 comments) WA building council votes to require heat pumps in new homes and apartments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33526419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33526419 - Nov 2022 (14 comments) Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959850 - Sept 2022 (247 comments) Show HN: Heat Pumps, Hooray – A heat pump calculator for your home - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838748 - Sept 2022 (56 comments) Interest in heat pumps has increased dramatically in recent years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712140 - Sept 2022 (257 comments) Heat pumps: what they do and why they’re hot now - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32431077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32431077 - Aug 2022 (23 comments) Heat pumps are efficient and eco-friendly. So why are they so rarely used? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32182699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32182699 - July 2022 (34 comments) Värtan Ropsten – The largest sea water heat pump facility worldwide (2017) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31985467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31985467 - July 2022 (19 comments) DOE announces breakthrough in residential cold climate heat pump technology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31791444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31791444 - June 2022 (398 comments) We must ban boilers to force public to switch to £10k heat pumps' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31086020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31086020 - April 2022 (26 comments) Why Heat Pumps Are Immensely Important - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30814536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30814536 - March 2022 (23 comments) You and the planet need a heat pump - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30746081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30746081 - March 2022 (139 comments) Warmth from the earth and air: could heat pumps replace our gas boilers? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258855 - Aug 2021 (13 comments) Heat Pump Water Heaters - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23000192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23000192 - April 2020 (214 comments) Heat Pumps Work Miracles - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19271162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19271162 - Feb 2019 (243 comments)
nfriedly 4y ago
In the US, heat pumps are not unheard of, but they are fairly rare. (Not counting air conditioning, which no one here thinks of as a "heat pump" even tough it essentially is.) Trying to get a HVAC company to install a heat pump can be very difficult and/or expensive in may parts of the US.
- mayli 4y ago
  Isn't AC just a heat pump that pumps heat to outside, and a heater if you install it reversely?
  - nfriedly 4y ago
    Yes, the only real difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump is that air conditioning only works one way, whereas a heat pump has some valves and solenoids and whatnot that allow it to switch directions. It's kind of bonkers that we so frequently install air conditioners but not the tiny bit of extra parts to make it into a proper heat pump. I hope this will change in the near future.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  More or less every HVAC contractor in the Santa Fe/ABQ area pushed heat pumps on us when we wanted a solution for our home 3 years ago. That doesn't mean it's not hard in some places, but we're a (very) small population low density state, so if you can get it done here ...
AnonMO 4y ago
I don’t think he ever sold it ad new tech its more of a Silicon Valley spin on old tech. And heat pump are in the US but many are hesitant because of the climate in the states can be extreme and as you said NZ has a milder climate compared to the US. for example in my state just last month we hit lows that aren’t supported by any heat pump on the market for days on end but my furnace kept me warm and on the other side of the country temperatures break world record highs every year. Everything op said fits the US market very well heat pump demand is on the rise, alot of people have smart thermostats they’re even provided by some utility companies, the product is a very compelling.

by Nition 4y ago

thaeli 4y ago

I'm in the US and have had a heat pump for 15 years. It was a fairly small cost add from a straight cool. I get this depends on region, especially for the older units, but I never understood why they were such a hard sell even in mild heating climates. Ironically, I bought this system because at the time natural gas looked like it would be becoming more expensive more quickly than electricity in my area. Since the cost delta was small, and I don't think it made my total monthly utility bills any higher, no big deal, but I might not have even bothered with a heat pump if I'd known about the fracking boom at the time. (I'm also fortunate enough to live in a state with powerful utility regulators, so electricity prices never spiralled like they did in "deregulation" areas.)

kevstev 4y ago
Interestingly, I am in the middle of replacing my HVAC which died last fall. I was dead set on getting a heat pump. I didn't really care about the increased upfront cost, so long as I was getting increased comfort and there would be a reduction in costs after install. When I really looked at the numbers though, my cost of electricity is so high, and my natural gas is so cheap, that I would need a COP of over 5 or an HSPF of around 20 on the heat pump to just break even on heating- I pay about 16.5 cents per KWH for electricity all in, and $1.05/therm for natural gas in NJ just outside of NYC. Efficiencies that high don't exist on central units. It would cost me easily an extra $100/month to heat my home, and the additional upfront cost was $7-10k. In cooling mode they are slightly less efficient than the best AC units as well, not by a significant amount- but its not like it will make up for it on the cooling side of things. I really wanted to go this route, but this would be an extra upfront as well as ongoing cost. I really have no option but to replace with a conventional system and in 10-15 years re-evaluate. I will likely eventually get solar, but my roof is currently close to, but not yet at its end of life, and I have a townhome with limited roof space and a historic district to contend with, its not going to solve the electricity cost problem.

dang 4y ago

Heat pump passion is kind of a thing for some reason! 200-year old heat pump technology is back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34846762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34846762 - Feb 2023 (205 comments) How a heat pump works - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34739375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34739375 - Feb 2023 (324 comments) Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34708161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34708161 - Feb 2023 (174 comments) Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34397715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34397715 - Jan 2023 (477 comments) Do heat pumps work in cold climates? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34352309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34352309 - Jan 2023 (326 comments) French startup unveils new residential thermo-acoustic heat pump - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34233719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34233719 - Jan 2023 (219 comments) US companies are producing heat pumps that work below -20F - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34160672 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34160672 - Dec 2022 (330 comments) Heat pumps are now mandatory in new homes in Washington State - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33589627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33589627 - Nov 2022 (48 comments) WA building council votes to require heat pumps in new homes and apartments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33526419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33526419 - Nov 2022 (14 comments) Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959850 - Sept 2022 (247 comments) Show HN: Heat Pumps, Hooray – A heat pump calculator for your home - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838748 - Sept 2022 (56 comments) Interest in heat pumps has increased dramatically in recent years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712140 - Sept 2022 (257 comments) Heat pumps: what they do and why they’re hot now - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32431077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32431077 - Aug 2022 (23 comments) Heat pumps are efficient and eco-friendly. So why are they so rarely used? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32182699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32182699 - July 2022 (34 comments) Värtan Ropsten – The largest sea water heat pump facility worldwide (2017) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31985467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31985467 - July 2022 (19 comments) DOE announces breakthrough in residential cold climate heat pump technology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31791444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31791444 - June 2022 (398 comments) We must ban boilers to force public to switch to £10k heat pumps' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31086020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31086020 - April 2022 (26 comments) Why Heat Pumps Are Immensely Important - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30814536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30814536 - March 2022 (23 comments) You and the planet need a heat pump - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30746081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30746081 - March 2022 (139 comments) Warmth from the earth and air: could heat pumps replace our gas boilers? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258855 - Aug 2021 (13 comments) Heat Pump Water Heaters - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23000192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23000192 - April 2020 (214 comments) Heat Pumps Work Miracles - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19271162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19271162 - Feb 2019 (243 comments)

nfriedly 4y ago

In the US, heat pumps are not unheard of, but they are fairly rare. (Not counting air conditioning, which no one here thinks of as a "heat pump" even tough it essentially is.) Trying to get a HVAC company to install a heat pump can be very difficult and/or expensive in may parts of the US.

mayli 4y ago
Isn't AC just a heat pump that pumps heat to outside, and a heater if you install it reversely?
- nfriedly 4y ago
  Yes, the only real difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump is that air conditioning only works one way, whereas a heat pump has some valves and solenoids and whatnot that allow it to switch directions. It's kind of bonkers that we so frequently install air conditioners but not the tiny bit of extra parts to make it into a proper heat pump. I hope this will change in the near future.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
More or less every HVAC contractor in the Santa Fe/ABQ area pushed heat pumps on us when we wanted a solution for our home 3 years ago. That doesn't mean it's not hard in some places, but we're a (very) small population low density state, so if you can get it done here ...

AnonMO 4y ago

I don’t think he ever sold it ad new tech its more of a Silicon Valley spin on old tech. And heat pump are in the US but many are hesitant because of the climate in the states can be extreme and as you said NZ has a milder climate compared to the US. for example in my state just last month we hit lows that aren’t supported by any heat pump on the market for days on end but my furnace kept me warm and on the other side of the country temperatures break world record highs every year. Everything op said fits the US market very well heat pump demand is on the rise, alot of people have smart thermostats they’re even provided by some utility companies, the product is a very compelling.