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Does anyone else marvel at data throughputs nowadays? People talk about 5GB/s NVME cards as being "slow." Same with Internet speeds. It's unreal the progress th
by throitallaway 4y ago
Does anyone else marvel at data throughputs nowadays? People talk about 5GB/s NVME cards as being "slow." Same with Internet speeds. It's unreal the progress that we've made (and continue to make.)
- doubled112 4y agoAbsolutely. I keep saying to people "it doesn't matter, everything is fast now". Gigabit fibre to the home, NVMe that is way faster than RAM was not that long ago, CPUs in phones that make old desktops look like toasters. The disconnect is that the numbers feel huge in comparison, and what my computer can do for me really, is not hugely different.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y ago> NVMe that is way faster than RAM was not that long ago Citation?
- rektide 4y agoDDR2-1066 was pretty rare (fast), and rated as PC2-8500, meaning 8.5GBps. DDR3 started here-about, in ~2007. Consumer PCIe 5.0 ssds will in some cases likely surpass that.
- jakogut 4y agoDDR2-800 has a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 6,400 MB/s, and was in common use well after 2010.
- doubled112 4y agoDepends on what you consider a long time, maybe. https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/990-pro-pcie-4-0-nvme-ssd-2tb-mz-v9p2t0b-am/ https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-st... > Sequential read/write speeds up to 7,450/6,900 MB/s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM Lists DDR2-400 capable of 3200 MB/s of throughput.
- ciupicri 4y agoYeah, but there's a random in RAM and SSDs aren't that great yet.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y agoNot to mention deletes/overwrites.
- tester756 4y agoSeems like we'll start using NVMe as RAM, so we'll be able to have higher RAM sizes
- rhn_mk1 4y agoIt's called swap.
- doubled112 4y agoCould we go full circle and use that for a RAM disk?
- sidpatil 4y agoIIRC tmpfs already does that, by swapping to disk.
- tester756 4y agoConceptually? yes, but I meant using NVMe fully as RAM, without your RAM sticks.
- godelski 4y agoIsn't the issue endurance? I'm pretty sure your drive would die before the year is over. Probably a month or two.
- bravetraveler 4y agoLatency would be significant as well Endurance may surprise you, but then again - I haven't paid much attention to newer (cheaper/weaker/more dense) NAND types
- Night_Thastus 4y agoIsn't NVMe storage much higher latency than RAM, which is no good for the CPU? IIRC, NVMe is also poor at random access.
- kiratp 4y agoLets all keep in mind that a very small portion of the global population has access to this. It is our responsibility to bring all of humanity forward with us as we write software. https://perfnow.nl/speakers#alex https://perfnow.nl/speakers#alex
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoWhile you're not wrong about the portions who can access it, I wonder at how many of us doing work that brings humanity forward at all. Sure, let's not use fast system as an excuse for bad code, but I'm not going to pretend my CRUD app is elevating humanity. Even the stuff that claims to feels like at best a lateral move a lot of the time.
- rnk 4y agoThat kind of reads like a sarcastic post. The us has so much terrible internet. I'm about to try trip channel bonding starlink, dsl, and an lte internet connection. Starlink and dsl drop packets a lot. I'm in the us, pay $100 a month to get 5 mbit dsl. This is not in a big city though, 20 miles outside of a city, next to a highway. There's fiber that runs by the street at the small subdivision this is in, kind of in the woods. The company that owns it refuses to connect us to fiber, instead preferring to put 100 homes on 5mbit dsl at far more profit. There's one big commerical user that paid for the fiber. This is the story of the us of course, I'm not unique. A family member lives on the other side of the country, he's closer to a big city but has the same problem.
- TheHappyOddish 4y agoThe important thing is you kept those damn socialists out of your country and let good old American free market forces solve the problem.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y agoI marvel at 5GB/s mass-storage, but then I groan at the knowledge it will be used to run a denornalized Postgres database table containing JSON blobs for queries that will do full tablescans because apparently dropping $Lots on a high-end storage system is preferable to learning how to do things properly.
- whoomp12342 4y agoreasoning: engineers can be lazy too
- runnerup 4y agoMoreso, because this solution costs $4,000 so it only needs to save one week of one persons engineering time to be a more cost effective solution than “better software engineering”. It’s laziness, but it’s cost effective laziness.
- foepys 4y agoThe end result of this is something like Microsoft Teams where they are in the process of swapping out the entire underlying runtime because the team that wrote the application itself was so lazy (read: incompetent) that it is slow on literally every machine it runs on and this is apparently the only sane way to fix the whole mess - bar a whole rewrite of the entire application.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y agoIs this true or confirmed somewhere official? Clearly the underlying architecture has major issues.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y agoAccording to this 2021 blog article[1], MS Teams is undergoing two simultaneous overhauls: 1. Teams will use a shared, Windows systemwide Blink-based WebView2-based host instead of using its own private Electron environment. 2. The Teams' UI is changing from Angular to ReactJS. So Teams will remain a modern-day HTA, for better or for worse, but sourcing from my own experiences working with Angular, ReactJS, and MS's WebView2 vs. Electron, I'm not convinced any of these changes will substantially benefit the end-user experience except perhaps a modest reduction in memory-usage attributed to using WebView2 instead of Electron. [1]: https://blog.thoughtstuff.co.uk/2021/08/stop-saying-microsoft-teams-is-being-rewritten-from-electron-to-react/ https://blog.thoughtstuff.co.uk/2021/08/stop-saying-microsof...
- forinti 4y agoSometimes you have to move 15TB about and then nothing is fast enough. At 5GB/s, that would take nearly an hour and 5GB/s would be the fastest part of the trip. If it has to land on tape or travel through the net, it's going to take days.
- jgalt212 4y agosneakernet will always be with us.
- LeonM 4y ago"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of magnetic tapes hurtling down the highway" - Andrew S. Tannenbaum But you are right, writing to and reading from tape will take a long time. Modern tape drives can do ~500MB/s, so 15TB will still take ~9 hours. Though that may still be faster than a 1 gbit internet connection (depending on how far you must drive).
- vinyl7 4y agoIts a shame all our data is sent/received over HTTP these days, otherwise I'd be excited about it
- organsnyder 4y agoThis is a very different HTTP than 1.0 or 1.1.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoThe protocol implementation doesn't matter if everything is serialized into ASCII. At some point there's going to be a web 4.0 where people figure out the performance advantages of binary data.
- kickaha 4y agoGot a VIC-20 for my 13th birthday in 1983. The local TV shop sold Commodore hardware and hosted a BBS that my little nerd cronies and I connected to at 300 bps. All of us knew the owner who ran the store and mentored us and hired some of us when we got old enough. On one visit he took me back, behind an actual curtain, and showed me the BBS machine. If you know the 1541 Disk Drive, you know. Well this beast had a Commodore branded 5 MB hard disk connected to a C-64. In my memory it was 6” by 8” by 24” long, with an enormous power supply, and must have cost thousands of Reagan-first-term US dollars. Two or three years later another mentor hired me to put a 33 MB hard disk into his IBM PC. Not a clone. My memory tells me it was a DOS imposed limit, those 33 MB: the biggest drive available. I managed to plug the connector in upside down and released the magic smoke. That was a many-hundreds-of-dollars mistake. (And a good lesson in patient mentoring.) In 1991 I obtained a used 80 MB drive (half height!) to put into my own PC XT clone, via a local Usenet group. I set the volume name to $1_PER_MB because going under that threshold was so impressive. Those are my reference points for storage.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago300 baud was comfortable reading speed, at least for me as a child. It was also fun to pick up the phone and be able to distinguish individual bytes of data (though not the actual content of the byte). Once we got to 1200 baud, it just became a stream of warbling.
- Arrath 4y ago> I set the volume name to $1_PER_MB because going under that threshold was so impressive. Hah! Too funny, my own personal memory for 'cheap' storage was keeping an eye on the Fry's print ads in the Sunday newspaper while saving all my allowance and summer job money, finally buying the outrageously large 200GB HDD for a mere $1 a gig!
- kickaha 4y agoI’m so old I forget that old memories can be found again with Wikipedia and Google. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_D9060 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_D9060 https://www.commodore-info.com/brochure/item/commodore_d9060_01/ https://www.commodore-info.com/brochure/item/commodore_d9060...
- godelski 4y agoYes and no. Throughputs are crazy high these days but the rate at which they increase is slower than the rate at which compute increases, by a lot. So if we're discussing in a relative sense, then there's a growing divergence and thus one can argue that I/O is getting "slower." This is actually one of the major topics in HPC discussion and why there have been so many crazy hacks. Things like flashbuffers are pretty much essential these days. Even if you're doing multi-node ML training you see pretty big differences using infiniband due to the frequency in which nodes need to communicate (there are regularization interval tricks too). In scientific computing this is a big limitation to our ability to visualize at high resolutions and is why in situ visualization is growing popular. As far as consumer hardware and consumer usages, yeah, everything just feels fast though.
- Mountain_Skies 4y agoIt's starting to become difficult to comprehend much of it now. My ISP is pushing me to replace my 300 Mbps service with 2Gbps, but I never even saturate what I have. Maybe if I were a gamer with huge downloads it would make sense to upgrade.
- runnerup 4y agoBlizzards servers never saturate my 1gbps even during extreme off hours.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoI'm a gamer on 300 Mbps. Even 100 GB huge games aren't much more than a half hour away on steam. I don't really see the value in being able to download that much in 5 minutes.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y agoI do not know if it is still true, but originally the PlayStation did not perform patch diffs, and any kind of update could be 10s of gigabytes. If I were routinely having to wait to start a frequently patched game, that would get old pretty quickly. Outside of that, yeah, I am not sure what use greater than gigabyte would be for 95% of the population.
- jlokier 4y agoMeanwhile, my ISP is offering me 17 Mbps. This is in the UK, in the centre of a "SuperConnected City". I use a phone hotspot for internet instead, because it's faster than any fixed line I can get.
- alfiedotwtf 4y agoTalking size and not speed, to be honest without joking, I still marvel that I have a 64Gb USB stick. 64Gb! HUGE!